I think you can find instances of Chad throwing to the sidelines successfully just like you can find Kellen throwing wounded doves unsuccessfully. Both of the QBs are ill-served by the 07 OL, I think that everything the both of them did this year was way the hell above and beyond the call of duty. You can criticize both Kellen and Chad all you want this year, but it's unwarranted, unfair, and just plain inaccurate. I think that these are the reasons behind the CS intention to have a QB competition -- they want to see Kellen and Chad behind an OL that can pass block and run block WELL. Then they will make a judgment. I say let the best man win. But let's keep them both so that if one goes down we still have the best possible chance to win. See, the real issue to me, is that with all the guns full of bullets and drawn, the BS Offense is a bastard to try and stop. But the QB has got to be accomplished enough to run it. After this hellacious competition this year, Kellen and Chad will both be ready for the BS Offense, IMO.
The coaching staff has to make those comments in case KC shows no improvement from last year. KC just made some throws last year that we havent seen around here in a half a decade. See..dont get me wrong..I have said on numerous occasions that the NYJ's could win with Chad. A great defense combined with a great offensive line and a very good running back and Chad can control a game. The problem that I, like many others around here have, is that "control the game" crap we have been hearing for the past couple years. You Rarely, not all the time, but rarely have dominanting teams that just control the ball successfully unless you have a historically great great defense. The Bears and the Ravens come to mind. I know all about the pass you are referring too. Yes, Chad has made those passes before. I truly will never believe that every head coach that Chad has had limits Chads chances at going deep on purpose. I believe Chad does that by not having confidence in his own ability. Chad is a pretty honest guy and hes probably right. For every long pass anyone brings up that Chad has had success with...I can bring up 10 passes that receivers took lunch breaks waiting for the ball to get there. Not being sarcastic there...but you would have to admit he has the potential to get his receivers killed....and db's and DC's have caught onto that over the past 2 or 3 years...and thats what has lead to Chads demise.
I'm just calling it like I saw it. Both guys have problems but I tend to think Clemens issues could be worked out through solid coaching. He's like a fresh made piece of clay while Pennington has been drying on the window sill for a little while. The OL was horrible and it gives them both a pass for most of the season, I completely agree with you there. Also, I wouldn't be suprised if Pennington is starting next season. People on message boards can talk in circles about it all day and night, but the decision rests with Mangini and who he thinks makes the Jets the most competitive team next season.
I think that apart from the CS' opinion of Chad's ability to make all the throws, the play of his WRs speaks volumes about their confidence in him. If you take a look at the valor of both LC and JC overachieving on their routes, their performance does not indicate they believe he's trying to kill them with his incompetence. Also, there's not been a word from any of them about Chad's incompetence. If anything, the general opinion on that field is that both Chad and Kellen are foxhole buddies of everyone.
If we put Brady or Peyton or Favre or David Carr behind our O7 OL, I wonder what their stats would have been?
Clemens sucks I hope Chad has a career year behind an actual offensive line. Look what happened to pretty boy Bracy when his line collapsed. Oh wait he showed moments where he looked good. And the majority of the time he couldnt play Pop Warner.
We don't have a sufficient body of work to judge Kellen by -- especially from his play last year behind the '07 OL. As I said before, I think what Kellen and Chad managed to do this past year was more than they should have, given their lack of protection and the non-existent running game -- all a product of the OL, not the QBs or the WRs or the RBs.
i dont understand how people are riding off kellen already. Whenever he had time in the pocket he made blistering passes. Some were caught, but most were dropped by our recievers because of not being accustomed to his style of play. I think kellen will throw for 25 tds in 08 Pennington will need a new arm by the end of preseason Clemens will suffice
So you and other fans will be patient through another 4-12, 6-10 season with the new talent? You do not need to wear a helmet to know if a QB has that "it" factor. You can just see/feel it, you know he will develop, did you get that from KC's play this last season? Most of the snaps he looked lost out there and held the ball way too long. When CP got his chance he had a great year, so pardon me for not cutting a 2nd round pick who sat for over a year any slack. Don't get me wrong I hope I am 110% wrong, but at some point the Jets need to go in a different direction at QB or at least have a backup plan not named CP -- fans have made it very clear his time as a starting QB in NY is over.
Thank you . You are not alone in your thinking. Sometimes I feel like the Clemens lovers were watching different games than I was. I went in wanting him to be all everyone said he was. I just didnt see it. I saw him miss more passes than he made when he had time. When he didnt have time he totally choked . So for me , I say let them fight it out. If Clemens can turn it around and show me somethin..Great .....If not Keep Chad and start lookin for a replacement. Six games does not a career make. But after sitting for a year and a half is ample time to show something....Which he didnt
Thank God fans do not make these decsions. At the end of the day, our o-line was very bad last year, neither QB could be very effective. While I think mentally CP is a very smart QB but he needs play action to be effective. I think the injuries have taken their toll on Chad's arm, hence the ablity for DBs to sit on his out routes in particular. The jury is still out on KC. Flashes of good play but I would be lying if I said I was comfortable with him as the opening day starter. At this point, we hope that there is a good competition in training camp. I will root for whomever is our Guy on opening day. Go Jets!!!!!!!!
This is the best post in this thread-- easily... I don't want to get into this debate because I have had it literally 10+ times on this board alone, and hundreds more at games, parties, etc., and I'm really sick of it... It's nothing personal against Chad, he's a hell of a guy, but- unless we suddenly turn into an all-time great defensive unit, this team is not going to make a legitimate push with Chad at QB any time soon... Will we with Clemens? Maybe, probably not, but who knows? However, there is the possibility that he could develop into a very good QB.. We will never know unless we give him a legitimate time frame to prove himself without always looking over his shoulder....
I wish i knew where all this clemens kool-aid was being served. Pennington is prone to making mistakes? He was, but Clemens made even more mistakes, unless you dont count interceptions as mistakes. What is this double standard of saying we need to see clemens with a better supporting cast? You are acting like last season when Clemens was in he was playing with a awful team but when Chad was in there he was playing with 10 other all pros on offense. They were actually on the same team last year, and Chad had the same horrible supporting cast. A lot of chad's game is play action, which we havent been able to do b/c our running game sucks. Now, with our better o line,that will open things up. The correct thing to say is lets see how both Chad and clemens will do with a better supporting cast.
Im not sure you know but you dont get points for clemens throwing the ball far. You actually have to be accurate. Kyle boller can throw the ball really far. Who the hell cares how far you can throw if you arent accurate at all?
A lot of Chad's game is play action because Chad doesn't have the arm to put the ball into tight spaces down the field or outside the hash marks. Play action is designed to let the QB have time to set his feet and issolate recievers with a lot of space down the field. The NFL is set up as a match up tournament in the playoffs. What happens when we face a playoff team that can stop the run and we fall behind by a score? The answer with Chad is quickly becoming a pick 6 in the 4th quarter to end the game. QB in this league need to be able to throw down field into space when they are not in ideal throwing position, being bumped and sometimes moving the opposite way they are throwing especially against good defensive teams which is likely what you face if you make it to the playoffs.
so agreed but im just going to make the statement that Kellen will be the starter . Mangini just hangs his head when Chad throws a check down on almost every read, having time from the line or not. All of you stop making QB reads from your couches and stop saying Kellens not a good QB, Yes hes nothing great right now, it was only 6 games, im sure you've heard that also but we all know he could of had 2 more wins last year ect, and what happens when he gets his timing down with the receivers. Theres no telling if hes bad, but I think its his job to lose right now. Kellen stats in '08 - 20 TDS 11 INT .... JETS 10-6 cause of a very favorable sched again like in 06.
The true super bowl contenders don't have Quarterback Controversies. When we aren't spilling out 7 page threads week after week about who should start for this team, then we can talk about winning it all.
I happened to be listening to Tim Hasselbeck on Sirius last wednesday night. Yeah, I know, not exactly the paragon of NFL QBs, but Tim did make an interesting observation. He said that a lot of the time you could see where the play was designed to go deep, but Chad would check down to a receiver on a shorter pattern. Tim said he thought that it looked like Chad was "Scared of losing his job". There it is, make of it what you will.
Guys, if you believe this is about Kool-Aid, then you are really talking about the NYJ CS drinking it by the gallon. Your invalid judgments on Kellen and Chad are not shared by the NYJ CS. Otherwise, all these FA moves would be done differently. If the NYJ CS believed Kellen and Chad were as bad as many of you brand each of them for every reason under the sun, then they would be looking for QB relief from anywhere. As it is the NYJ CS which has made some sterling moves so far to make their REAL weaknesses go away (on the OL and the DL, where our real enduring problems are and have been), have stated repeatedly so far that there will be a competition between Chad and Kellen. Personally, I don't care which QB wins the competition -- as long as the CS makes a clear-cut decision on their starter, I will be happy because I believe this is the best CS we have had in a very long time. We have the BS offense that wants to run and pass and you can't tell which when and we have the Mangini 3-4 / 4-3 hybrid that wants to confuse and discourage your OL and knock your QB down. The CS is looking for smart, versatile good atheletes. I'm all for them.
