1) In order to make a trade for what you deam is his Value, you need a partner who is thinking on the same wave legnth. 2) He's coming off injury, not any knee injury either. It seems to be a pretty bad one and it's also being reported that it's degnerative, which means it's not going to get better, thus making his shelf life that much shorter. 3) He doesn't fit on the inside or the outside in a 3-4 Defense. 4) I know there are a lot of people who thought he was the second coming of Ray Lewis. He's not. He's an above average 4-3 LB, not quite a dime a dozen, but they are out there... 5) I would have loved to have gotten a 3rd and 5th, or something along those lines, but it's smart to get a 4th next year that will most likely be a 3rd if he can stay healthy. We would have gotten nothing for him when he walked next year. Kudo's to the staff for knowing that they had to make a move this year to get decent value for him now, rather than nothing later. Take the blinders off, I liked him as much as the next guy but it was obvious he was a square peg in a round hole when it cames to the 3-4, and that seems to be the system we are commited to, so we moved him to who was willing to give up the most for him. Ellis
QFT Agree 100%. You guys ever heard of a franchise tag too? You think he wouldnt re-sign here if he won CBPOY and had a great season? Any of the possibilities make it worth more than a stinking 4th round pick.
So you think the course the Jets have taken in getting what theyve gotten for Vilma is preferable to the team throwing out a core of linebackers in 08 in Harris, Gholston, Vilma and Thomas, allowing them to play behind Jenkins and seeing what happens?
Heres another question: Even if Vilma is miscast in a 3-4, if they drafted Gholston, Vilma would probably be the number 3 linebacker on their depth chart. Does anyone really think that the Jets are going to acquire a 3-4 linebacker this off-season that is gonna be more productive than Vilma would be in the 3-4?
The Staff should have known that he wasn't a 3/4 line backer before he took a snap for them. His value was off the chart before the draft in 06 and was still good before the draft in 07. Why would you give them kudos for wasting his value for 2 years and than getting the best they could out of damaged goods?
Well chances are it will be a third round pick, if you guys dont think a 3rd or even a 4th round pick is better than nothing for sentimental reasons than I dont know what to tell you guys. Unfortunately thems the breaks, we brought in a coach that runs a system that is not suited for Vilmas talent.. This isnt the Vilma of 3 years ago we are talking about now, we are talking about present day Vilma who has proven that he cannot play in this system and has a serious issue with his kneee..
Guys, read Vilma's quotes. He was happy to leave because he wasn't comfortable in the 3-4. He was never going to be that good here. The end.
I dont think you can fault the staff for giving him a chance to succeed in their system. It is not completely unheard of that an ILB with his skillset adjusts to the 3-4 and works out favorably.. Not trading him last offseason while his value was certainly higher than it is now I can't defend them for though.
I dont understand why it's sentimental reasons... Now we have a beefed up D-line and probably add a real threat at OLB, there's a good chance he'd be able to return to form in this system. There are some 3-4 ILB's that are as small as him or only slightly bigger.
The conditional 4th round pick is real weak. I would feel a lot better if it were a conditional 3rd with potential to turn into a 2nd. I wanted to trade him, but this is a bad trade if the only condition is to move up to a 3rd. Hopefully it can change all the way to a 2nd but I doubt it.
I see your point but if you look at tape of Vilma from 05 when we didn't have Ferguson next to DRob he was a tackling machine but he was making many of those tackles on his back or off the line of scrimage. This guy is a classic side line to side line pursuit LB the 3/4 puts him in a box of traffic which reduced his value to us day 1 of the Mangini regime. The way to rebuild is to get more value than you are giving up. The day we decided to go to a 3/4 Vilma's peak value was on another team not ours.
What everyone has to realize is that Vilma is coming off of knee surgery; that is a biggy. It was quite obvious that after Harris came in last year our D elevated. It is not that Vilma is not good he just isn't right for us at this time. I think when everything is factored in this was a good move. Currently, Vilma is still damaged goods - like it or not. His rehab is going well and the prognosis is good, but that is not enough to warrant a third round pick in this year's draft or even next year's draft. The conditional avenue is the smartest choice in this case because if Vilma does well next year we make out a lot better in '09, instead of feeling like we got fleeced as some like to say. Conditioinal, also protects the Saints - I think it is a win - win. Now, had Vilma not gotten injured and played the whole year last year, than yes, everyone is absolutely justified in saying that we should have gotten a second this year or absolutely, defintiely, a third.
People on this board don't seem to realize what "conditional" means or how serious a knee injury can be to a professional athlete .
Yes... so we can see him stuggle with reads again, be playing out of position, because he's not really a fit for the inside of the 3-4, get swallowed up over pursuing because he's not a 3-4 LB. You think just bringing in Jenkins would miraculously clear up the fact that no one on the front 7 outside Harris played well at all. Also... I think the draft is still almost 2 months away, so adding Gholston to your depth chart is a bit presumptuous to say the least... Facts are, he should have been moved before last year, I'm not nor willI never dispute that fact. But, it wasn't and thats the fact, so this is the best of a bad situation created by management. At least they had the where-withall to realize that, and get as much as they could for him now. - Hense Kudos for realizing a mistake and making the best of a bad situation... everyone will love that 3rd rounder, which it will most likely be if Vilma stays healthy, come the 09 draft. Ellis
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3270701 this better not be true. I can?t believe, there?s not one team in this league, that wouldn?t give up a 3rd straight up right now for JV. I think Tanny is too smart to not let anybody steal him (at least i hope so). If this is really true, we should have kept him. Hope the Rhodes deal gets done before Febuary 2009 and Franchise Vilma.
Bottom line is, if Vilma is healthy, this is a coup for the Saints. If Vilma is not healthy, this is a coup for the Jets. Either way, someone is going to get paid off in this deal.
Is it actually a conditional though? Sportscenter said it was a 4th, no mention of it being conditional.
The one huge positive in this move is the leader of our D is now a tough MOFO not a finese player. The Jets have rarely had the outright leader of the D be as nasty and outright tough as Harris.
