" Mangini sheds light on 3-4 evaluations " ~ ~ ~

Like Marcus Howard, DE from UGA who was MVP at the Sugar Bowl, 6'2", 250 Lbs., ran a 4.45 Forty at the Combine. Monster.

 

What Mangini essentially is saying here is: "I was an idiot for going to a 3-4, given the talent available, and a bigger idiot for not recognizing that after the 2006 season and doing something to rectify the situation."

Now he's going to wind up trading D-Rob and Vilma, which he has to do given the fact that he wants to stick with a lousy 3-4 plan, and the Jet's defense will be starting over from scratch (again) in year 3 of his coaching tenure.

Where's the talent in this draft to flesh out that 3-4 front? We all heard last season that the talent was particularly weak for a 3-4. Well, now it's this season and that magical 3-4 NT and 3-4 ROLB still aren't out there. How about 2009? Is that when the draft suddenly becomes better for his system?

 

Br4dw4y 5ux -- you are right about one thing. It IS all on Mangini and company now. It's their team to make or break, alright.

Personally, I think they are going to do great. Am looking forward to the moves in the next 70 days.

 

You know, the more I listen to you being sour about them convinces me that you bought into the whole Man-genius tag and the miracle of a 10-6 wildcard season out the gate.

We bought into a young CS/FO leadership that is still green and everything they have tried hasn't been perfect. But it isn't like the whole sky is falling. You remind me of the George Nelson character in O Brother, Where Art Thou? Swinging bi-polar cat from result to result.

 

Not saying anything about you KeepChad&Kellen or Marcus Howard, but I just can't believe from reading the comments the past few days how much stock people put in these combine numbers. I mean if you can play ball, you can play ball. If I guy doesn't know how to start in the forty, maybe stands up too straight in the beginning, his time suffers. I mean I know it's helpful for evaluations, but it just seems that people on this site are obsessing on combine numbers. There is so much more to the game than what they measure at the combine, WATCH EM PLAY BALL!

 

Reading Mangini’s mind:

[Thought pops in] I really need to figure out this 3-4…let me pull out Belli’s 02 playbook one last time…
[Chewing gum obsessively] Ouch…I just bit my tongue
[Reaches for coffee] Ouch…I just burnt my mouth

 

What did you see Mangini do last season that convinced you he was anything other than lucky in 2006?

The only thing I saw him doing last season where he clearly had improved his skills over the season before was screaming at players as they came to the sidelines.

You think that's not going to get old really fast?

And BTW, 4-12 is sky falling. If you don't believe that then you and I are not talking about the same definition of sport and competition. I don't root for sports teams that do horribly any more. That was a failing of my youth before I realized that failure in sports is not random. Failure in sports strikes the teams, coaches and players who richly deserve it.

 

The fact is, yes moving to the 3-4 was a mistake.

W/ that said...Parcells, Cowher, Dungy, Walsh, Bellichick ALL would've done the same thing(Not so much moving to the 3-4 for all of them but installing/forcing their own system). Herm did it when he was here...and we were JUST starting to get the right personell before he left. Every coach in the NFL is gonna do it.Hell Timlin is in the process of doing it w/ the steelers after almost 15 years playing a 34! Mangini is a Parcells/bellichick disciple. Therefore he's a 3-4 guy. Let me ask you this: If Parcells came in and made the exact same moves Tangini has..would you be having such an issue?

That's why constant turnover and throwing HC's under the bus at the firsts sign of mistakes being made(like you often suggest) isn't the answer. Wait till the end of this offseason heading into TC before going crazy. This is a huge offseason for us. We have ammo to rid ourselves of some dead weight, cap room to sign some people, and ae in good position draft-wise. When you are rock bottom like we were when herm left...it is a process. Mangini has proven to be compotent. The regime has also proven to be patient w/ rebuilding. It may not be so pleasing to us "what have you done for me lately" championship starved die hards...but I'd rather we take our time to build a longlasting winner than have some half assed "quick fix" that never works out and puts us in cap hell like has happened so many times in the past.

 

The problem is that when you take awhile to build a team the head coach ALWAYS goes under the bus before the process is over. You don't have 4 seasons to put a team together and make them competent, you really have more like 2. Look at the head coaches who actually brought stability to a team after the team had declined and then stuck around for a decade. Those guys were in the playoffs season two and none of them had a lousy season after their first season.

Maybe Mangini is going to be the only coach in history to take over a team that went 10-6 and then 4-12 and guide them to 10-6 and then 4-12 and become the stabilizing coach, but it doesn't look likely right now.

 

No offense Bradway, but your over-reaction is laughable. When Mangini was hired, every post of yours was gushing about how he had combined all of Parcells' great people skills with Belichick's great football smarts. Now you're coming right out and saying the sky is falling.

Middle ground seems pretty foreign to you. Let's have an open mind and see how he's learned from his mistakes, and how he will improve the talent of this team. What if he ends up trading for Shaun Rogers and drafting Gholston, and they both become great players in the 3-4? Then the 3-4 doesn't look like such a terrible idea, does it?

Let's just calm down and wait to see what happens this off-season.

 

I agree with you to a point, particularly on the timeline, but I don't really think they realized how bad the situation was. In year one, you got 15 sacks from Hobson and Thomas on the outside. I don't think they expected either to regress as much as they did, especially Thomas.

That said, we should have been more proactive in drafting depth and developing right away. The laundry list of has beens and vet backups we brought in isn't going to cut it.

-X-

 

if Mangini wants to keep the 3-4...fine.....but, .my question is: ...are there enough quality lineman & lb's in the league (or prospects) to continue to put all of our eggs in the 3-4 basket???

 

You are spot on with this post. Remember, Br4dw4y5ux is the same guy who wanted to lock Mangini up for 15 years after his first season.

Take it all with a grain of salt. He makes very good points and then heaps tons of bitterness on top of them.

 

QFT!!! :up:

The only thing tossing out Mangini now and bringing in a 4-3 coach would do is set us back and two drafts on the defensive side of the ball.

Smart owners find a good coach and let him build on a long term plan. Thats why teams like Pittsburgh seem to stay good for a very long time, they just do not run coaches out of town very often.

 

I think the key word is patience.. but this is the NFL so who has that, yet teams with patience have won SBs... we all need to be taught patience.

 

No, he actually said:

It's even in the post.

I ask again for the millionth time...DT next to DRob? Pass rushing DE? The fact that we line up in the 4-3 as it is?

I guess none of that matters because fans always know more...

Start from scratch? When the fuck did DRob and Vilma become vital parts to our D?

And lousy 3-4 plan as compared to the dominant 4-3 plan you and others like you have written up?

We have a ROLB in BT.

And you must not be paying attention to this draft at all...theres 3-4 DE prospects (Balmer, Moore, Langford, Dixon, Bryant, Pressley, etc), a couple NT (Morton and Rubin), and tons of DE/OLB prospects (Gholston, Groves, Crable, Avril, Long).

But you CONSTANTLY ignore this shit to hop on your soapbox...it's like anything anyone says to rebut your partial analyzation falls on deaf ears because well...you're right anyway right?

Can't beat hindsight based analysis that ignores many significant details (cap room, personnel, available talent) though....

 

When he's swinging less from the despondent side of things his posts are pretty good, no doubt. The bitterness though. :lol: It's always tough to swallow.

 

Seriously?

Thats hilarious. I actually dropped my joint reading that.

The only thing more funny would be if he was praising Mangini and Tannenbaum for last offseason while it was happening...

 

They were awfully lucky in a number of ways in 2006 in my opinion. But I say that after seeing how disastrous this year has been. There is always some luck involved in how things work out.

I do believe there are plenty of positives. The way they train and prepare for the season and for games. Their approach to building the team (with the exception of misjudging the lines abilities). Accountability for the players and for themselves. They have come out and admitted their shortcomings. Now we will get a chance to see what they do about them. Two years for a rookie head coach is not quite enough to judge him by yet. And despite the 4-12, I believe we will have a chance to become competitive again more quickly than you will let yourself believe.