Pennington got a raw deal...and this may haunt us for years...

Errant passes are more often the fault of a too successful pass rush than a bad throw. Once again, if you don't think the NYJ CS has any eyes or judgment, why would you think they would let Chad and Kellen battle it out again in 08?

If you think the NYJ CS are that bad then that's all you should be bellyaching about but it begins and ends with them for the moment. There's no player that'll trump them.

 

Older fans who have been watching football for a long time tend to be able to look past the marquee glitter and see the reality of a player. Chad is over 30, has been injured three times, twice with shoulder injuries and has never won a game against a superior team that was on top of their game that day.

That makes him a much less likely candidate to lead the Jets to a Super Bowl than Kellen Clemens moving forward. He'd by .1% chance as opposed to Clemens 1%.

 

I would like to draw your attention to the fact that Joe Montana used moxie and timing to defeat the defense, behind an OL that blocks well for the pass and the run. He had little or no arm strength when compared to the modes of Favre and Marino. But I daresay that "spaghetti arm" won more than either of them.

 

See, with all due respect, here is where the defenders of Chad miss the point..and I totally get where they miss it.

No...there are no Paytons or Bradys out there.

So you build a team on great defense with a great offensive line...and hopefully a great running game.

You have to have even an average qb....now heres the total point and I say this which much respect..not being sarcastic...but you have to have even and AVERAGE QB...who the defenses respect deep..even if not accurate..to build any kind of running game.

"But what about Curtis Martin..look what he did with Chad"

Two things..that was a different Chad...and Martin won that rushing title without ever gaining more then 25 yards on any play....which will never ever happen again in the NFL. Joe D's consecutive game hit streak will be broken before that record is broken.

 

QBs don't win games by themselves. However, I would like to direct your attention to a 41-0 playoff game that was accomplished when the Meadowlands was still a 3/4 ft deep sand lot against that might rocket arm Payton Manning with his Harrison and his Wayne ablazing!

 

When you see Chad, now that he is healthy again, behind a reasonable OL that can pass block AND run block, then you will have some reason to judge him. Until that happens, however, it simply makes a lot of sense to keep your powder dry, it seems to me.

 

Not sure what you mean by a single performance....not getting the point..did I say Chad had a couple bad games so get rid of him?

No...Im not saying keep drafting potential sb qb's.

Im saying give the ball to a qb who defenses think might...MIGHT...stretch the defense to give your running game a chance and build a great defense in the mean time. If that qb comes around and develops....fine. If not, then teams have won superbowls with average qb's. They all had NFL arms that could stretch a defense...and Chad cant.

 

The Colts blew chunks that day. The Jets also were the hotter team coming in with 8 wins in 11 games as opposed to the Colts 6-5 after a 4-1 start. The Jets were the better team on the field and they blew the Colts out.

The next week they ran into the Raiders and lost badly, Chad's first big loss against a superior team and the one that set the pattern for his years with the Jets: beat mediocre to bad teams and lose to good ones.

 

See, I do get your point. How we differ is that you believe Chad can control a game against even a great defense. I think its become impossible. Whether Chad has a great OL or doesnt...he is what he is. Let me ask you this...if you were a cb..would you rather have chad as the qb you are going against ...or an average qb who uses the entire field.

Chad no longer can use the entire field and when he throws the ball wouldnt you agree that as a cb..you have PLENTY of time to recover.

See, as bad as kellen was last year...what I saw was when he made the couple of good throws..receivers did things with the ball after the catch...and thats how you stretch a defense.

Let me explain two things. First off, Im not close to be sure about Kellen. Secondly, I have good vibes about the direction of this coaching staff and how they are building the team...im not a super negative poster. I just cant take watching Chad anymore.

 

There is no way the Giants would have even made the playoffs with Chad. He had a couple of good years, but i do not want to see Chad throw another 2 yard screen pass for the Jets again. And there is no way Jets will be haunted by supposedly giving Chad a raw deal. I mean we are talking about Chad Pennington here not John Elway.

 

The NYJ CS seems to agree with Chad that he can make ALL the necessary throws. Otherwise, why in the world would they let him compete head to head with Kellen against this year?

Perhaps we should see who wins out in this competition this year. Kellen obviously has the stronger arm -- I don't think anybody would argue on that point. However, the competition is about accuracy, timely decision-making, reading the defense in time to do something about it, using the cadence to befuddle the defense, and generally managing the game to maximize momentary advantages.

They will compete on these criteria, which apparently weigh far more in the collective opinion of the NYJ CS than that cannon arm stuff.

Gee, you know, Jeff George had the most intriguing bullet on a rope throws you ever saw. But he was dumb as dirt.

 

The Raiders' defensive line mauled and manhandled the NYJs in that game. And remember that the Raiders started the run on run on run offensive strategy that they stayed with for two years against the NYJ in that game. Both the OL and the DL of the NYJ got busted in the mouth and were just stomped out by the Raiders.

The Raiders cancelled the NYJ skill players for two years, starting in that game. But we still almost beat them with that field goal.

 

I'm sure that I will regret getting sucked into this Pennington morass once again, but can you truly not see that the Pennington of 2002 is long gone, never to return? Two shoulder surgeries will do that to you.

In addition, that game argues against your point, not for it, unless you believe that QBs have nothing to do with winning. That was Manning's second playoff game ever, and he stunk, dropping his record to 0-2 in the playoffs. Since then he's 7-4, as he learned how to harness his tremendous ability in big games. I'm not saying that Clemens is another Peyton, but the lesson there is that even great QBs on excellent teams need experience.

 

That is a very good question. Maybe because they thought they were a better team than they really were, a much better team that is, and they thought they could get away with letting Clemens sit on the bench another year and fully rebuild in 2008?

That doesn't say very much about the competence of the regime after a 4-12 season that saw both their options at QB falter at key times.

Mangini needs to grow some balls and start acting like a guy who wants to win 12-14 games, taking the necessary chances along the way. Those kind of seasons don't get handed to you like the 10-6 mirage in 2006.

 

I understand your point and I get why the Jets staff is giving Chad an honest chance.

And the Jeff George thing....poor Jeff. He has to hate that Chad is still in the NFL because all the defenders of Chad love to throw his name out there...just kidding.

Got to run...will be back later...lets put it this way..and this is my opinion and my phobia. When Chad goes back to pass and throws that sideline pass..you know..the one that flutters just over the linebackers fingertips and the ball is caught for a 3 yard gain..and then the cb destroys the receiver.

And then the announcers scream "wow..chad has such a great touch". Thats the point where i start to pull out my hair...chew on the inside of my gums and grind my teeth. I cant take watching that throw anymore. Chad is probably the best ever at making that 3 yard reception. I cant take it anymore.

Its me..not him..its me.

 

No doubt about it, and we for sure had the worst o-line in the NFL last season. No question. However, when your QB can not throw down field it changes everything. Chad handicaps our WRs, they can only run certain routes as we know. The sidelines, which is huge in the passing game (even more so late in a game) is just not there with Chad. Defenses stick 8 men in the box because they know their safety can react quickly if the play ends up being a passing play. We?ve watched Chad handicap Coles for years, I wont see it happen with Cotchery. I love Chad for what he did here in NY, but his time has come. Chad has no arm, and that just is not going to work in the NFL.

 

Quote: "...Let me ask you this...if you were a cb..would you rather have chad as the qb you are going against ...or an average qb who uses the entire field..."

In my opinion, BS would send in a play to make that CB have to make a choice, and Chad would be smart enough (as he's shown before) that given time from the OL he would make that CB pay regardless of which choice he made. I am hopeful that Kellen gets there. To me, this is a matter of the play's strategy,the OL's buying enough time, and good decision-making by the QB. The fastest gun in the West is of no use if you're that dumb-as-dirt Jeff George, or you're still wet behind the ears and the thought process is still a little slow to click in.

Quote: "...Chad no longer can use the entire field and when he throws the ball wouldnt you agree that as a cb..you have PLENTY of time to recover..."

Believe me, I appreciate the fact that we have all just suffered through an abysmal season. Most of the time Chad was running for his life, just as Kellen was. Who had more interceptions? Kellen. Who had more touchdowns? Chad. Kellen ran better than Chad. Chad got a lot of offsides with his hard cadence and his quick counts than Kellen did. Chad takes longer to throw the ball because of the overhand technique he adopted from Vinnie. Kellen throws the ball more quickly but with a little poorer decision making and not quite the accuracy. When Chad is knocked off-balance by the pass rush his throws are errant -- either floating or off-target. But see the second play of the 2nd game with the Pats, and the Pats' DE forces just such a throw from Kellen for an interception and touchdown the other way.

Look, you cannot judge either of these guys behind the 07 sieve of a line. Last year, 06, was a rehab year for Chad -- he admitted that in '06 he didn't always know how the ball was coming out because of the rahab -- still somehow they got to 10-6 anyway.

We are results-oriented in the U.S. of A. I wouldn't have it any other way. But, it is important to determine how you get there. It's not all luck in the draft and Snyder's endless billfold during Free Agency. It does have something to do with how the offense plays together, how the defense plays together. It does have something to do with the coaching. And it is a chess game with real live fighting pieces!

 

Quote: "...That was Manning's second playoff game ever, and he stunk, dropping his record to 0-2 in the playoffs. Since then he's 7-4, as he learned how to harness his tremendous ability in big games...."

The continuity and stability of the Colts needs to be compared to the discontinuity and blatant instability of the NYJ over the same period, before you can compare the QBs.

I think most fair-minded folks can agree that the QB is a product of what his OL allows him to do with his skill players. That Colt OL has been something else for Peyton.