Vernon Gholston. Groves is real fast, agile, has some strenght, and has passrush moves. i believe he'd be great as a passrushing OLB. gholston is good too, a physical marvel with a lotta strenght and some speed, but from what i saw he's not as agile at changing directions as groves is and all he has right now for passrush pretty much is abull rush, and the ability is there for him to develop more moves, but who knows....... that's why i'd really like it for us (if drafting groves is a reach at 6) to trade down from 6 (if the possibility of this is there) and pick up some extra picks to get groves, and draft another DL like pat sims or dre moore, or rubin if he wont be available for that long. thoughts?
Every knock people come up with about Gholston, his motor and inconsistency, and his lack of pass rush moves, can also be said about Groves, I'd say the only thing Groves has over Gholston is speed.
You guys must have missed the South Florida game...if they won it would have been solely because of the performance Groves gave. The guy played most of the season hurt...he dislocated 3 toes against Florida. He's a guy who relies on his ability to explode off the snap, so dislocating 3 toes is going to throw his game off alot. I think he's a more fluid athlete than Gholston. He's also a physical freak like Gholston, but is better technically. He's underrated against the run, and his late season play at OLB came while he was still injured...learning a new position in your draft season while playing with a significant injury is going to throw off most guys games. I think he blows up at the combine again. He's a very intelligence athlete, he's explosive, he's confident, he can pass rush like a mofo, he's got a loose athletic profile perfect for the 3-4 OLB position... I think after the combine he'll be the Ware to Gholston's Merriman.
i agree with dware....i said like a month ago that i liked groves but i couldnt complain if we got either one
This answer is on point top to botom, I think the Ware/Merriman equation is exactly right, though I think Gholston probably isn't as nasty or relentless as Merriman. Groves may be more like Wimbley, too, but in the end, I think the point is that Groves is a better fit for our defense. He can simply do more things.
So they guy has 3 sacks during the entire season...and you blame injuries. Groves looked lost when Auburn moved him to linebacker. Sure, he created a lot of pressure throughout the season and got to the QB a lot during the South Florida game...but how many sacks did he have in that game? Zero. Groves is not even close to Gholston right now. He might have a hell of a work out, and run a great 40, but he's not Demarcus Ware...I know you're obsessed with Ware, but why reach for someone like Groves when we'd already be reaching for Gholston is by far the best pass rusher in this draft.
Your not reaching on Groves if you move down in the draft. I think that was the initial basis behind the OP arguement. I personally think we would only take either player, only if we traded down. Only way. Gholston is not all he is hyped up to be. Groves is on par, if not better when healthy, then, Gholston. I have not watched as many games of Groves, but I have watched every game of, Gholston's. I can say with no hesitation that Gholston will be more of a project then Groves will be heading into the next level. They both have a lot of room to grow, but Groves is more advanced at this point in their game.
So you watched Groves create absolutely no pressure after he made the transition to linebacker? They are both projects. Gholston has the bulk to take on NFL players right now, Groves is going to get eaten alive as a rookie because of his thin frame.
No Way , Gholston is a Merriman/Ware type Outside Linebacker , Groves is a smaller but quicker player but is still very very raw. Gholston all da way but Groves runs like a 4.45 lmao thats krazy.
This sounds like good analysis to you? So sacks is the only real way a player can be messing with a QB? And why is everything seen as an excuse here? How many people here have ever tried playing a sport on a dislocated anything? I couldn't run with a dislocated shoulder, try being an elite college pass rusher after getting your toes dislocated midway through the season. And even with the dislocated toes he led the SEC with 23 QB pressures. I even explained WHY he looked lost... I know that. DeMarcus Ware wasn't DeMarcus Ware before his combine. He was a second rounder who could really pass rush... Where'd I say that we pick Groves at 6? Right now he seems more like a late first/early second guy. But pre-combine rankings blow and don't mean shit in the end...I expect Groves to come right back where he was post combine. He should impress in workouts, interviews, and he has tons of tape of him dominating SEC competition. I have no idea why you're dealing with absolutes in the NFL draft so early...
Groves does not have very good technique, he is a workout warrior. Because he has been so highly ranked, people think Gholston is being overrated, and try to find flaws in his game (like people are doing with Dorsey, McFadden ect.) People always talk about Gholston inconsistency and how he has no motor, and only bull rushes people, But Groves is more inconsistent, has a worse motor, and doesn't have very good technique either.
Heres the thing...any of those knocks on those two (IMO) is a reach. Neither has a "bad motor" but they tend to work harder when they are directly involved in the play, a flaw many pass rushers (Freeney, Abraham) have. I have no idea where Groves and bad technique came together. He's not great or perfect, but he stays low, gets leverage and power built up, and allows his body to explode forward. Even though he's considered undersized (for DE), he plays surprisingly strong because of that. Half the battle in proper technique is staying low, and Groves naturally keeps himself low when getting into the backfield. This is a guy who came into the season a top 5 prospect and got injured...now alluva sudden he's a workout warrior who is more athlete than football player. Like I said, I think Groves explodes at the combine. It'll be the first time in a long time he's been healthy. If you want to see what a healthy Quentin Groves can do, look at that South Florida game.
Here is an idea... assuming Groves somehow falls to us in the 2nd (I really doubt he will... he looks like an excellent prospect)... Why not draft both Gholston AND Groves? Don't tell me it's wrapping up too much money in one position. Our front 7 needs an overhaul badly, and a major part of that is the linebackers. Currently Harris is the only reliable LB on our squad. We have NO reliable pass rushers. You draft both of these kids, suddenly you have two. Also, we don't need to worry about having "too many" OLBs since Mangini loves to rotate players. I think an OLB rotation of Gholston, Groves, Thomas, and Bowens would be excellent. This still doesn't solve the ILB problem, but it is a step in the right direction.
I dont know much about Groves, but I always hear hes really one dimensional. And we could probably get him in the second..
I'd absolutely be for this move if that's how everything falls into place. Groves is a steal at our second rounder. I just think after the combine he makes some team in the mid-to-late first round drool enough to pull the trigger, a lot like Manny Lawson did 2 years ago.
If this scenario ever presents itself, I would lose my mind. But I highly doubt that Groves will be there for us in the 2nd Rd. But since we're in fantasy mode, having both Groves and Gholston would give us a lot of pass-rushing depth (see NY Giants, enough said) and flexibility. On obivous passing downs, imagine Bowens with his hand on the ground at RDE and Gholston/Groves standing just to the outside of him. As for ILB, I wouldn't mind picking up Leman of Illinois in the 5-7rd. That boy is a Manigini wet dream. With his stock currently on the low side, he may just be the steal of this draft.
