There was a quick segment on Vernon Gholston about how he should definitely be a top 10 pick. Obviously the first thing they talked about was his great outside pass rush skills. Also something that made me happy to hear was that they really liked his motor and how he never gives up. I know this has been refuted by actual OSU fans but I trust the professionals personally. They said his only weakness is his size as a 4-3 end but it wouldn't be a problem as an OLB in a 3-4 scheme. I have been pretty comfortable with the Jets picking at 6 rather than at 3. The more good things said about Gholston makes me even more comfortable. I think we are in good position to get a great player because at worst we get Gholston. I think it's possible that if Chris Long passes the Fins and Rams we may trade up with Atlanta to nab him. I am pretty confident as of now that the Jets will make a good deal (although not so confident in their luck that the pick won't be a bust.) As far as what will happen if Sedrick Ellis and Gholston are on the board at the same time...I'll leave that up to the Tangini duo. I personally don't have a preference at this point but I would probably pick Ellis just because he is clearly the better player. We can test our luck with him at NT and if its not successful Im guessing the Jets will probably again have a bad season. In this case, hopefully Mangini will be gone along with the 3-4 and we will have a nice setup for a 4-3.
We are in no position to draft 6th overall and if he "doesn't work out" have a bad season.. if thats the case go safe and get Gholston or trade down.
I guess I didn't give enough detail on that part. If they do pick Ellis that means that the Jets are pretty sure he will fit the system. However, if it happens that they still suck Mangini will probably get the boot and there will be no more 3-4. I didn't mean its fine that it might not work out but that's just the worst case scenario in drafting Ellis.
I have been happy all offseason after we beat KC because this was exactly where I wanted us to be in the draft. A few slots lower so that we could take Vernon Gholston. I am much happier with the 6th overall pick vs. the 3rd overall pick. If we draft Vernon Gholston and go after Samuel in Free agency, this defense could be potentially very good.
I'm not going to pretend to be an expert on Big 10 players, as I avoid games involving teams from that conference like the plague, because of how overhyped they are, so I have a question about Gholston. I saw him play once or twice all season and wasn't that impressed, and from all the highlight reels that have been coming out, it seems to me that he just uses his superior strength and leverage to rip through blocks... I have seen lots and lots of highlights of his sacks, and I don't recall seeing him once make an athletic pass-rush move, other than a straight speed-rush, to beat a tackle to the inside or the outside.... If this is the norm for him, I will be very upset if he is in green and white next season. He is not big enough to get by on strength and athleticism in the pros... He needs more than a straight bull-rush, an unrefined rip move, and an outside speedrush.... He needs a repertoire of moves... So to those of you who watch Big 10 ball often and have studied up on him, does he have an arsenal of moves? Or is his rush technique we're seeing in these highlight films pretty much the norm? It's really easy to look like a stud in college when you're the most athletic person in the tackle box. In the pros it's a whole different story...
ugh I like Gholston, while I dont regret that last win year always go with the safe bet I dont wont to spend a high draft pick its not worth getting a great 4-3 player just to fill space is not worth it
He's not loaded with moves like Quentin Groves is...but he's got the basics of a pass rush...swim move...club move...blow right by the guy...bull rush the guy...rip move... The comment about his motor is nice to see...up until that LSU game where many if not most people saw him for the first time Gholston's motor was never questioned...it was actually considered a plus.
while a lack of moves may be discouraging, those are things that can be taught by proper coaching. strength and speed are much harder to "coach up," so if he has those as his foundation, learning a bunch of different pass-rushing skills would make him an absolute beast.
thats what i been saying all offseaon, darft o-line, sign a.samuel and draft gholston to play with rhodes, harris, vilma, revis, samuel, robertson, ellis with gholston
I think we should give you the boot ya scumbag. Haha just kidding Fak, seriously though, I don't think Ellis can fit as the 3-4 traditional nose tackle. Personally I'd like to see them go after Sopoaga in free agency, 6'2 325 and one of the strongest interior lineman in the league.
It's tough to coach up a guy who's primary goal is to feed his family. While that is noble and all, I would rather have a guy who's primary goal is to dominate because he loves football.
yeah for sure. ideally you want that in every player. i haven't heard much about Gholston's character, are you implying something based on stuff you've heard, or is that just your general statement? i think that the aforementioned pass-rush moves can be taught, and even if his (or one of his goals) is to feed his family, then becoming a better player will help him make more money which will in turn feed his family. but now we're just getting into the motivational/psychological aspects of it. my point was that we shouldn't shy away from the guy because he lacks all the moves in his arsenal. he's physically gifted enough that if he learns more moves and puts them together with the elements he already possesses that aren't tangible and coachable, then he can probably become a force.
You can teach moves..they are not comple moves he will not be able to comprehend. You can't teach being a Freak of Nature who is jacked city Utah and is also fast. You can't teach that. He had a slow start getting into football so he has to be tweened a bit but is the best yet to come? Absolutely and I would love to see him in Green and White.
Maylock wouldn't put him at number 5 on his list if he wasn't a great pick in the draft this year. These guys no way more than us.
they know more than most of us, including myself. but i feel like i can obtain just as much knowledge and player info on this sight as I can from watching the so-called experts who, by the way, are at times far from correct.
The issue is that since he doesn't seem to have a full arsenal of moves, we don't know how effective he is when faced with someone he can't just power by or fly around....
yeah, and i agree that that is something that shouldn't be ignored. but they need to work with him or something before the draft to know whether or not he's capable of learning more moves to add to his arsenal.
True...if he's a good player, he'd be the first young college athlete who went pro just to feed his family and actually succeed. Some of the reasons to not pick Gholston that I've read is just ridiculous.
The experts are wrong just as often as the average slob on the internet. Anybody in sports journalism is just a fan of the game who had enough skill as a writer to make a career out of it. They don't necessarily know any more about players or the game than you or I. Personally, Gholston makes me nervous, and this perceived lack of moves is part of the problem. Take Gholston as opposed to Chris Long. Both perceived as impact defensive lineman. Long went to a noncompetitive program (albeit one with solid coaches and a history for turning out top talent) and nobody questions his ability to make an impact; hes got the motor, his technique is perfect, etc. etc. Gholston went to one of the dominant programs in college football and four years later, they say hes got the tools, but still needs work. At some positions this might not worry me; wide receivers for example generally come into the league needing work on their route running. But the best true pass rushers dont come into the league as projects. Bryan Thomas came into the league as a guy with potential, but no polish, and Jets fans can all tell you how that worked out. The John Abrahams, Dwight Freeneys and Terrell Suggs's of the world come into the league ready to put up 8+ sacks a year from the get go. There are exceptions to any rule, but you dont use the sixth pick in the draft to find an exception. If there are questions about polish, if people think he needs coaching to be a good pro pass rusher, then I want somebody else. This team definetely is lacking a true pass rusher, and with Hobson about to depart in free agency, is lacking starting caliber OLBs generally speaking, so finding one somewhere is certainly on the list of priorities for next season. But I don't think its enough of a priority to justify spending the sixth pick in the draft on a player that your not sure about.
Yea...Mayock's a bit more than that... Long also played shit teams, and didn't dominate the better competition (VT, TT) they had. People do question his athleticism or size for the 3-4, which should count for something. 3 years...1 1/2 of them as a starter...he locked up 22 sacks as a starter. All DE/OLB prospects are "projects" in a sense...most have never done anything but rushed the passer as a DE. Gholston has been a very good pass rusher with great physical ability, which is why he's being talked about as a top 10 prospect. Gholston....hasn't even been drafted yet....but you're talking like his rookie year has already happened. No one really questions Gholston's pass rushing skills...
