Dallas' 3-4 is different than the one the Jets run. And nobody has really given any reason as to why Gholston is a risky pick.
Why is the Dallas 3-4 different? Also, I would prefer Gholston to Ellis at #6 even though I wouldn't cry if the FO decided Ellis could be the guy at NT. I believe that Gholston has some experience at OLB at Ohio St. if I'm not mistaking. Plus, we need pass-rushers immediately. Hobson probably won't be back and Bryan Thomas looked very bad last season. We need one step-right-in starter and another guy as well.
Solid Absolutely no problem with that as a 2 round haul. Nice to see some beef for a change. Could also see us going after Groves w/ that second round pick, especially if we address the O-line through FA, which I thoroghly expect us to.
I am an OSU fan, and I have seen Gholston play in every game since he got the nod to start in 2006. He is going to be a good player in the NFL, but I dont think he will be a better impact for our team like Ellis would be. Gholston played "Leo" end for OSU, which means he was a DE/OLB tweener. He would play on the line when OSU needed the pass rush from him, and he would drop back in coverage from the OLB position during zone coverage. He is a very strong force for the pass rush, especially with his ability to bench 455 lbs. He is probably the strongest player on the OSU team. He has experience with dropping back into coverage, and he plays it fairly well. He is rarely out of position, which makes him even more valuable. So he is not just your typical pass rusher, who cant do anything else for their team. He spent the majority of his time as a 4-3 end for OSU. That is the only time he "truly" excelled with the pass rush. He plays really stiff for his position, and he has the tendency to give up on a lot of meaningful plays. He is also being called undersized from a lot of experts because I believe they also view him as someone who could really excell as a 4-3 end, but will more then likely only be able to excell as a OLB on the next level because of his size. Which only down grades his potential. If we were to take either of the two, I would not lose any sleep over either choice. Both players in this draft have some work to do at the next level. Who can step up and excell at their respected roles will be the determining factor on who will excell more. Gholston will need to learn a lot about the OLB postion, and find that disruptive force in the pass rush that he got from being on the line in OSU. Ellis obviously needs to bulk up, and command the double team on any given down. My vote is for, Ellis..
GH, we can agree to disagree, on Gholston's abilities. I live in Columbus and trust me, Ghoston has played the majority of his career with his hand down. There were times Ghoston was moved along the line in a stand up role to take advantage of the O-Line's weakness. IMO, Gholston was very poor dropping into coverage....A MAJOR concern when you're considering drafting a player with the 6th pick. Gholston is stiff and not fluid in coverage, straight on pursuit he's very good. The 2 Buckeyes's that didn't declare, were much better and productive players. Carpenter played a completely different positon than Gholston, Bobby C was a OLB. Draftafullback...mentioned that no one brought up Gholston's risks, I think I've made it very clear. I'm not a Buckeye fan, but any Buckeye fan will tell you Ghoston was good, not great. Also, I don't have an agenda against OSU players, I just call it like I see it. In Fact, 2 years ago there wasn't a bigger AJ Hawk supporter on this site than myself. I never wanted DBrick....Hawk was my choice.
Dont want this. This does NOTHING to solve our problem of total lack of outside pass rush. If our 2nd round pick was Q. Groves,.....then,..maybe. We can plug Pouha & a cheap FA like Ethan Kelley or that Sapouga guy from San Fran in there at NT & then use our 1st round pick on Gholston. We are drafting for NEED --- we do not have the luxury of BPA.
They played the Wade Phillips 1 gap 3-4. It's much more aggressive. That doesn't say anything about Fergy though, he was a very good NT for Parcells when they used his 2 gap 3-4.
Well Every OLB doesn't have to cover. I would pick Gholston and have him rush the QB 90 percent of the time. That's the way the chargers and Cowboys use their guys.
Oh really, Where do you get that reasoning from.... that an OLB doesn't have to cover? Please explain in detail.
He was recruted to play LB, and he dropped into coverage in College, from time to time. For a 34 OLB, the more important thing is to get pressure, that?s why you use 43DEs to play that position. Other than most tweener-prospects, we already have at least an idea, that he can cover. And it?s not like they have to run down field with WRs all day. I really have little doubts about him beeing a perfect fit for our System. The thing i really doubt is his motor. But i definitly have some serious concerns about Ellis playing NT. I don?t really get why everybody is praising his quickness, a NT doesn?t have to be exeptionally quick, but he needs to have exeptionall power and strenght. To me, Gholston is the "safe pick" and Ellis is the "high risk, high reward pick". I?d take the safe pick, when you tie up that much money on a young player.
So you're saying NT and RT are not major needs for the team? Depending on who you ask, they're just as big if not larger needs than an OLB. Also, no 4-12 team can afford to draft solely on NEED over value. That's how you end up w/ Alex Van Dyke over Tony Brackens. And frankly, this given mock draft, we FILL major needs AND draft for quality value. it's a win-win.
I'd be happy with either of the following two DT/pass-rusher combinations A) 1. Sedrick Ellis 2. Quentin Groves B) 1. Vernon Gholston 2. Pat Simms I think I'd prefer group B, but it's close. I'd also be thrilled if Chelius or another impact OL was available in round 2 as well.
I've seen Gholston's entire career, he hasn't played LB. Most people have no clue about Gholston's true ability. I'm telling you he can't cover, it ain't happening. If you want a one trick pony that's fine....that's Gholston in a nutshell. Ghoston can rush the passer and is very explosive, but let's stop the garbage that he can cover. I feel very strongly about my opinion....Nobody on this site has seen Gholston play more than myself. Ghoston is a HUGE risk, he's not a Ware or Merriman, at least they can drop and cover with good lateral movement. If the Jet's want to spend a Top 6 pick on a one dimentional player it would be a move they will regret. The internet hype on Gholston is out of friggin control. Since Gholston is built like a Brick craphouse..."he's a great player"....that's a bunch of "Internet draft know it alls" that don't have the first clue about Gholston and haven't seen him play. I've been pretty quiet about my opinion on Gholston, but I'm just tired of people talking....about something they have no clue. The Hyperbole on Gholston's abiltiy makes me physically ill.
Interesting take,Pete. I for one have not seen alot of Gholston over 3 years time, and will def. take your opinion into account. The argument I will make for gholston however(and lately i've been leaning towards Ellis or trading down) is that if you have an OLB in 3-4 look that isnt a great cover guy..you can cover that up schematically. Frankly we'd be drafting him solely as a pass rush/point of attack type guy. That's what we need in the LB corps and those are his strengths. We have Vilma and Harris who are both well above average in coverage...and what we need is someone who can stand up a blocker at the point of attack, be physical in the running game, and get after the QB...I believe Gholston fills that role, and could develop into an all pro within that role. BTW what is your take on Sedrick Ellis?
If where gonna draft Sedrick Ellis make it be too play Defensive End... 308 Pounds is good for a DE but not NT... Gholston might be the safer pick but Ellis can be a beast on the D Line.
All right. I have been mulling this over in my head and can't see why it won't work. Someone please help me.... Draft Sedrick Ellis and put him at DE and move Dewayne Robertson to DE. That would give the Jets two DE that can move and both weigh about 310. Leave Pouha at the nose and draft / sign another large body for the middle and the line averages about 315 a man. The way I see it, this would help with the run and the pass rush by taking up space. Why does this not work? (Aside from Shaun Ellis and Kenyon Coleman issues) I can't wrap my head around it...
You need taller lankier guys for the end position. Their job is to keep the offensive line contained There are no starting DEs for 3-4 teams under 6-4 I'm pretty sure.
