RELEASES WR Justin McCareins CB David Barrett QB Marques Tuiasosopo TE Sean Ryan FB Stacy Tutt OG Adrien Clarke FS Erik Coleman LB Victor Hobson OT Anthony Clement OT Adrian Jones OG Jacob Bender TE Joe Kowalewski P Ben Graham RE-SIGNINGS CB Hank Poteat OL Wade Smith FS Abram Elam LB Brad Kassell FREE AGENCY OG Jacob Bell OT Stacy Andrews DT/NT Randy Starks CB Randall Gay QB Josh McCown TE Ben Troupe TRADES Pennington to KC for 3rd round pick (#66 overall) Vilma to Detroit for 2nd round pick (#46 overall) Robertson to Washington for 3rd round pick (#84 overall) #67 + '09 3rd for #45 DRAFT Rd. 1, #6 - Vernon Gholston, OLB, Ohio St. Rd. 2, #36 - Jamaal Charles, RB, Texas Rd. 2, #45 - Roy Scheuning, OG, Oregon St. Rd. 2, #46 - Devin Thomas, WR, Michigan St. Rd. 3, #66 - Dre Moore, DE, Maryland Rd. 3, #84 - Craig Steltz, FS, LSU Rd. 4, #98? - Joe Flacco, QB, Delaware Rd. 5, #130? - Durant Brooks, P, Georgia Tech Rd. 6, #162? - Mike Klinkenborg, ILB, Iowa Rd. 7, #194? - Chad Rinehart, LT, Northern Iowa DEPTH CHART QB - Clemens, McCown, Flacco RB - Jones, Washington, Charles WR - Coles, Cotchery, Thomas, Smith, Stuckey TE - Baker, Troupe LT - Ferguson, Rinehart LG - Bell, Montgomery C - Mangold, Smith RG - Scheuning, Moore RT - Andrews, Rinehart DE - Ellis, Coleman NT - Starks, Pouha DE - Moore, Mosley, Brown OLB - Gholston, Bowens ILB - Barton, Klinkenborg ILB - Harris, Kassell OLB - Thomas, Chatham CB - Revis, Gay, Dyson, Poteat, Coleman, Miller FS - Steltz, Elam, Smith SS - Rhodes, Washington K - Nugent P - Brooks KR - Washington/Miller PR - Washington After addressing the lines in free agency, I felt comfortable going with playmakers with our first two picks. Gholston compares favorably to Ware/Merriman, and with the beefed up line, he should be able to have success from day one. Although RB isn't much of a need, Jones only has a few years left, and Charles is a top talent who drops due to an incredibly deep RB class. Have to take that value. Scheuning slides in perfectly at RG, and can also play LG if needed. Thomas has only one year of major production, but that's a product of not being used as a sophmore. He's the real deal and can flourish in the slot. Moore adds beef to the DL. Steltz might be off the board here, but he gives us a ballhawking safety, and allows Rhodes to make more plays in the box and at the line of scrimmage. Flacco gives us long-term insurance incase Clemens isn't the answer. I like his potential, and I hope he doesn't fly up the boards so we can grab him here. Graham has really declined over the last couple of years, and Brooks has tremendous potential. Again, wouldn't be surprised if he ends up going sooner. Klinkenborg and Rinehart give us depth.
No, Charles is not good enough to warrant this high of a pick. Also, I don't see Flacco being there in the 4th, don't see Moore being there in the 3rd, and I don't see us getting a 3rd rounder for Pennington
Flacco won't go in the 4th. The Bears have already floated the idea out that they're willing to drop their 2nd round pick on him if he's available. He's quickly becoming a day 1 pick and if his senior bowl is as productive as we think it'll be he'll go into the combine with major hype.
MAYBE we trade pennington OR vilma PROBOBLY NOT DEWAYNE but all of them are not being traded this is the nfl.
Not he isn't, I thought he had a good year. Anyway, good luck trading him with that monster contract.
D-Rob would be fine in a reduced role, but given said monster contract, it's not worth it. And I wouldn't be worried about trading a monster contract if the recipient is Washington.
you failed to finish your sentence. it should actually read: "aside from maybe at de, he's worthless in this defense... in my opinion." last i checked, robertson had a good year and was productive. granted the jets blew this year, but he held his own.
You failed to finish your sentence. It should actually read: "last i checked, robertson had a good year and was productive... in my opinion. granted the jets blew this year, but he held his own... in my opinion. In MY opinion, until the Jets get bigger and more 3-4 experience on the defensive line, their run defense will continue to suffer as well as their pass-rush. In MY opinion, Robertson's only role of value on this team is as a pass-rusher in the occasional 4-3 defensive look AND maybe as a DE in the 3-4 if there are two monster gap controllers with him. In MY opinion, the Jets would be better off trying to get a draft pick for him, shedding his contract, and getting a player better suited for the schemes they are attempting to run.
The statistics go against what you're saying. In 2007, DRob posted his 2nd highest season. 57 tackles, 36 solo, 21 assists, 4 sacks. It's important to remember that his highest season was in 2006, also under the 3-4 scheme. Under the 4-3 he posted a high of 52 tackles in a year and no higher than 3.5 sacks. What makes him undersized? Hmm? A 3-4 DT/NY should be around 6'2, 340? So essentially he's one inch and 30 lbs too small? (Personally, I'd prefer lean players over fatty players but thats neither here nor there.) Well lets see his effectiveness in the 3-4 against someone who was "made" for the 3-4, Vince Wilfork of the Patriots. Wilfork's highest tackle total for his career was 54, nearly all (40 of them) are assisted, and he's never posted more than 2 sacks in a season. So, whose really more effective? Sure, the DT/NT is supposed to occupy the middle while the linebackers go after the sacks, but is it DRob's fault that our LB corp can't pass rush and that David Harris is pretty much a one-man show? No. So, lets correct you yet again. What I said originally was: "Last i checked, robertson had a good year and was productive. granted the jets blew this year, but he held his own." I'll finish this by saying that "and the statistics PROVE this statement and is not an opinion but rather a FACT." So yes, in your opinion, DRob sucks. But the statistics make your opinion, well, moot. Lets say that we agree we need to get better on the pass rush, and don't think that I don't believe we need to beef up on the DLine, but is it all DRob's fault? Absolutely not. If anything, he's been out performing other pure 3-4 nose tackles while operating under the 3-4 defense and in fact, has excelled in the 3-4 over the 4-3.
That's all well and good, but raw statistics are next to meaningless when evaluating defensive linemen in the 3-4 defense. It's why Richard Seymour was the highest paid player in the NFL in 2006 and has only averaged 5 sacks a season for his career. And that's for a DE, for a NT, they're not even worth a glance. It'd be nice to have a NT around 6'2, 340. I would prefer leaner, quicker players if our 3-4 was similar to one employed by Wade Phillips, which is more one-gap, and relies on more pressure from the DL. But Mangini is a Belichick/Parcells disciple, and runs the two-gap system. So the main job of the DL is to occupy blockers. D-Rob doesn't do that. Again, why are you using tackles to try and prove your point? Even in a 4-3, it's silly to use tackles to prove the effectiveness of a defensive linemen. If you polled everyone on this board who would they rather have at NT, D-Rob or Wilfork, if <90% said Wilfork there'd be a major problem. Wilfork's a big, gap clogging NT that's perfect for this system, and keeps the LBs clean and allows them to do their job and get those tackles. It's partially D-Rob's fault that the LBs can't pass-rush. It's part D-Rob, part Coleman, and part overall effectiveness of the OLBs. If you actually think tackles and sacks have any relevance in determining the effectiveness of a 3-4 two gap NT... then we have a major problem here. Without looking it up, I have no idea if D-Rob has better tackle and sack numbers than guys like Wilfork, Hampton, Jamal Williams, etc. and I'm sure some of the smartest posters on this board don't have a clue, either. You know why? Because they're meaningless. Wilfork, Hampton, Williams are tremendous when it comes to controlling gaps and eating up space. D-Rob isn't. Perhaps D-Rob could be a good NT in a one gap 3-4, but in the two gap Belichick/Parcells/Mangini system, he's just not big and strong enough.
Listen, if statistics aren't enough for you then nothing will be. We're going to have to agree to disagree. He's not worth trading (especially with his contract) and the fact is that by the numbers, he's been productive.
Defensive statistics are some of the worst in all of sports. A defensive lineman could get dragged and wind up bring down a running back 5 yards off the line of scrimmage and get credited with a tackle. He could also rush around the edge and force a QB to step up and get sacked by someone else and get credited with nothing but a hurry which isn't even an official stat. Yet which play did he make the bigger contribuation on? I like Robertson and think it's unfair to label him a bust because he's playing out of position. With that said he is not an ideal NT for the system we run but his cap number is too high to get rid of him so the best case scenario is to ride it out with him as an expensive role player and inside pass rusher in nickel situations.
I like everything except; 1) I would cry if we spent a 3rd round pick on Craig Steltz S LSU. I just do not see this guy cutting it in the NFL. I would rather get Josh Barrett SS Arizona St. 6'3" 231lbs 4.49 40 (faster than Steltz). Its time for us to get some beef on D. 2) using a 2nd round pick on a Texas RB (I'm just superstitious w/Ricky Williams & Cedric Benson).
I like statistics as much as the next guy, but for a 3-4 NT, they don't get much more meaningless than tackles and sacks.
