I keep seeing people throw out the ole line - "Ahh the Jets FO blew it because they didn't sign any FA's last year"..... Now, as much as I know Kendall is a big turd who screwed the team and already had a contract.. And the Jets should have handled this better.... 1) WHO WERE THE FA OL that the Jets were supposed to sign? 2) Can we do a little study of Salaries of Drafted OL Vs FA OL? In my quick research - It looks to me that last years FA market wasn't that great and that an above average OL got around an 18 million dollar guarantee and around 5 million a year!!!!!!! Even at that price - I don't see any of these OL that wanted to play for the Jets at the time.... The did try to get a few, No? Compare that to what looked like a very good OL class in the draft (as this one looks as well in 08') Lets take Tony Ugoh - He played LT for the Colts - many in the draft forum had this guy as can't miss and playing Guard for the Jets where I think he would have done even better... Maybe even RT.... Ugoh signed for a 4 mill contract 2 mill guarantee!!!!!!!!!! My Hypothesis is that: 1) These people who point a finger at the Jets and cry about not signing players come to the table with no Player Names that were actually attainable and affordable - You don't just sign FA's so some internet message board people don't call you cheap - You study the market, set prices and stick to it... 2) DRAFTED OL are a much bigger bargain than Free Agents... and it seems that the end of the1st round thru 3rd round these days is pretty easy to cherry pick some nice OL - A lot of us in the Draft threads have been picking great OL for years..... I'll throw out a late 1st round maybe 2nd round CAN"T MISS OT right now: OT BC Gosder Cherilus Can anyone find a link to last year FA salaries Vs Rookie contracts? Can anyone find a list of all the FA's the Jets should have signed but Blew it?????
The advantage to drafting OL over signing free agents is you develop them in YOUR system, w/ YOUR strength/conditioning and YOUR blocking schemes. People dont realize how crucial that is in the development and performance of an 0-linemen. FA linemen don't usually fix OL's over night. Unless you're one position away from elite/respectable(IE Kendall in 04) status it's usually not a good idea, b/c it usually takes awhile for cohesion to take place, for the player to get into the kind of shape/size the given franchise wants, and to also get used to the blocking schemes. From what i've seen of the FA/draft class and what I believe our OL needs...I can see us going FA at the left guard spot(brick needs a veteran next to him to stop the hampering of his development). As for the RT spot...the guy I really see as the best fit is Jake Long. Many believe he's gonna be a good LT..I question that due to his feet..but I believe he has a chance to be an all pro RT, and a dominant run blocker. IMO he's the best Point of attack lineman in this draft..and our Ol's biggest problem is not athleticism or technique..it's brute at the point of attack Now whether we want to invest another high draft pick in an OL who isnt playing a high impact/high salary position remains to be seen...but Long would be a perfect fit and would make our OL quite good.
I agree w/you. Its not as simple as "we need to make a big splash in free agency." Take Buffalo for example --- they dished out a ton of $$ in FA last year at guys like Langston Walker & Derrick Dockery; & Walker of Buffalo; Langston Walker 5 year contract for $25 million had a $10 million signing bonus. Derrick Dockery's contract is worth $49 million over seven years, including a stunning $18million guaranteed. To put in perspective, future Hall of Fame LT Orlando Pace got a $15 million bonus to sign two years ago. Dockery has never made the Pro Bowl, but will reportedly make $18 million over three years and $23 million over five years. It's essentially a five-year deal. Granted, the Bills now have the makings of a terrific offensive line, although it's inarguably cost them far too much to put this thing together. --------- Washington Post I think Tannenbaum is a pretty knowledgeable football guy. I think he is good at evaluating talent & measuring value ----- 2 must qualities of a good GM. IMO, he looked around at what was available & came to the conclusion that A) their value is not worth the money they are looking for & B) it will hinder our long term CAP manuevering. You cant use Randy Moss or A. Thomas as examples of JET misses in FA --- they basically told their agents to get them in New England to win a Super Bowl & we willing to take less money to go there.
what?s your point? 2nd round Rookies don?t cost much, and there are usually very good OL around in the 2nd, i think most here agree to that. But you need leader in that Line, a vet, who?s around this league for some time and doesn?t get fooled by the D. Kendall filled that spot, even thou i think he?s a asshole and trading him was the only right move at that time. But when we lost him, we lost our OL lost its Leader, and that really showed this year. I also agree, that the FA class last year, was not that good, and good overpaid badly, but there were still some ways to get that seasoned LG, we lacked after we traded Kendall. There were some guys on the trading block who we could have gone after Faneca or Smiley for example. And we could have even filled that spot off the waiver wire Keydrick Vincent for example. But or FO decided to put a player inbetween our two good 2nd year guys, who wouldn?t evend made the cut on most other teams, leaving our entire left side, as inexpirienced, as it gets.
You have to gauge the situation. Part of the problem with the Jets current situation is a lack of proven talent and an inability to develop what's on roster. As it regards free agency, contracts for interior lineman have become so inflated that it's absolutely necessary to draft them. While contracts for offensive tackles are similarly inflated, their importance makes signing them a no-brainer. As we've seen, there's no such thing as a "can't miss" offensive tackle. This year it's going to be a tough decision. Do the Jets follow common logic, spend the money on a Stacey Andrews, and draft a guard, or do they bring in a veteran guard and find their right tackle in a draft that's particularly loaded at that position. -X-
Good points that seem to jive with what I'm saying...... People get all whacky that we didn't spend on FA's..... As for Jake Long - I don't see a reason to spend a #6 pick on that spot when, like I was pointing to - the late 1st thru 3rd rounds are relatively cheap and loaded with OL prospects..... I want to confirm salaries - But, it looks to me like Tony Ugoh was a total bonanza compared to the guys who got 18 mill guaranteed and 5 mill a year as FA's... Amd I use Ugoh as an example... I think a lot of the posts are still here but, I can go back years where I personally picked Prospective OL players out of the college pool with a real high success rate.... It just seem slike there's a sweet spot for Bargain OL in the late 1st thru 3rd rounds.... And that unfortunately includes saying that D'Brick was too expensive, a weak run blocker and too timid to be a great LT.... Though at this point I hope he can continue to develop and become real good with better players around him!!!
Totally agree - Thanks for the article - Compare Dockery to some of the guys they could have DRAFTED at a fraction of that an d not missed a beat.
My point is that a lot of people whine a lot about what the team did NOT do without bringing to the table real names and actual players they could have gotten... (not you) I think they were in the sweepstakes for a lot of these guys but, it just got too expensive... Hey, I wanted Faneca.. .The day Kendall started his BS I said, trade Kendall for Faneca and give them a pick.... And I think at this point that Mangold could be THAT LEADER!!!!!! So, Moving on... This years FA class looks better. This year's Draft class looks real good... So, I think the Jets played their cards pretty much like they should have and have positioned themselves to take advanatge of a good OL market right now... And this coming from someone who screamed like Crazy for Offensive Linmen every year... Revis and Harris counter my cries for the draft last year and the lousy OL FA market tells me there was little to no moves there....
It takes little talent, skill or experience to make picks in the 1st and 2nd round. You or I could trade away the 2nd day's picks to increase our chances for a hit in on the first day. I expect that the person who's fortunate enough to enjoy the fruits of being the GM for the Jets to do better than you or I . I would expect him to be able to find gems on Day 2. That's why you've got the job. Anybody on this site can run down a mock draft of top 50 players and come away with "good players". This April, Mr. Tannebaum, get us a Hall of Famer with our 1st pick. Find us 2 more perennial Pro Bowlers with the 2nd and 3rd selections, then deliver us another Leon Washington-type surprise, but this time in rounds 6 or 7. Then I'll be impressed.
Admitedly I had concerns about Brick after his rookie season. I dont have them anymore. If you watch him closely he has developed VERY nicely. His techniqaue has come a long way, he's much stronger and is playing w/ alot more confidence. He's never gonna be a great run blocker...the run blocking has improved..but it is true he'll never be great. W/ that said..if we get a solid LG next to him..I have NO doubt that if he stays healthy..he'll be a top 3 pass protector league wide. What he needs is help next to him and to develop consistency...which will come w/ time.
It's not as easy as you think... Those old videos of upset Jet fans at the draft show me something - That most of the times those fans WERE RIGHT....People make fun of Jet fans in those videos but, tell me how many times did Jet fans Cry about a player picked who turned out to be GREAT????? Compare that to the Jets fans yelling for Sapp and Marino. Sometimes teams outsmart themselves... On and on... Trading UP for Dewayne was STUPID.... Bryan Thomas from left field was crazy... WE ALL KNEW IT!!!!! What I find is that some of us who watch some college ball and research the net have a TON more information on the draft that was even available just 10 years ago... You have web sites from scouts, former scouts - wanna be scouts - People at the East Coast practices right now... The information is incredible - The combine info, on and on...No longer are so many players coming out of no where - But, they are human so you do get your Colston type picks - players that just blossom.... Another reason why the Schlegel pick was so incredibly Insane.... If you did your homework Schlegel wasn't some surprise - He played on the best LB core in college football that year - Tapes that EVERY scout poured over!!!! and was obviously a situational player that AT BEST would play Running situations... That's not the description of player you even think about in round 2-3.... I'd love to ask NFL Gm's if they look at all this info on the net at all - I think it would be foolish not to - Too many good minds and Football people looking at and evaluating these players not to at least take a peak and get a feel for what the rest of the world thinks....
I hope so... But, this is why you don't go OL that high in a draft - You can develop guys like D'Brick without the huge cost... And this is why I don't take Jake Long unless he's the only option - I'd take peanuts (compared to the value chart) to trade down and I'd rather have OT Gosder Cherilus AND G Roy Shuening than 1 Jake Long. Cheaper and fills two spots. I also thing Cherilus isn't that much of a dropoff from Long.
I've watched Cherilus and I think that, despite his size advantage over Long, he's more of a finesse blocker. I don't think there's much of a dropoff. I really like that kid Scheuning. He seems like exactly the guy we need in terms of attitude and technical prowess. -X-
i doubt that Mangold will ever be that vocal leader for us. When i hear and read interviews from him, it just doesn?t seem that he has that type of personality.
All I know is that Jacob Bell, Stacy Andrews, Justin Smiley, Sean Locklear, or SOMEONE young and talented should be signed. Unless of course...they want to draft a G or T because theres pretty good talent in this draft.
I hear what you're saying about last years FA OL class jetblue, but I just want to make a quick point about FA vs. Draft. Of course FA's will cost more money, they've earned it. They're a proven commodity. Every positions players are cheaper when drafted than in FA (unless of course the FA sucks). A lot of players have good college careers but never make it in the NFL, so there's a big risk in ignoring holes that could be filled in FA and putting your faith in not only getting a rookie you're targeting but also that the rookie pans out. When a team has as many holes as ours, both FA and the draft need to be used to fill them for now and for the future. I feel like I'm stating the obvious, but also feel it needs to be said.
I really think that with the FA offensive linemen available at the OT and OG position, coupled with what's available in the draft; our offensive line should be way better than it was in 2007. I really worry more about what can be done to help the defensive line.
I think our best results will come on O-line in FA and D-line through the draft -- even though it looks like a solid # of prospects at OT in the draft.
Eh....D-lines not bad either: Haynesworth (probably franchised) Starks (personally I like taking the risk on him because of his youth and toolset) Kelley (NT depth) Sopoaga (NT and DE depth) Kelly (good size for DE) Corey Williams (excellent size and skillset for 3-4 DE) Balmer (I like him alot as a 3-4 DE) Moore (can be our Seymour, can play any spot on a 3-4 DL but is best at DE) Langford (might be a project, but his upside seems high, I really wanna see his combine) Sims (sounds like he's the best in a 1 gap, but his potential is interesting) Pressley (I really want to see his combine) Okam (even if he's a lazy SOB, the talent is obvious) Rubin (I'm REALLY interested in seeing this guy, sounds very intriguing as a NT) Theres alot more in the draft that I'd like to see at combine. This is a pretty interesting offseason.
I dont believe taking an RT top 10 is a great idea for us..but at the same time..if the board falls a certain way...He's by far the BPA, and if trading down isnt an option...well we could do alot worse. There's most def. a fall off after the 6th pick...especially w/ laruanitis going back to school. As for Long compared to Cherilus..both IMO project to play RT on the next level. For what we need in a lineman at this stage..Long is a much better fit. He's much more explosive, compact w/ his hand punches and frankly much tougher. Cherilus truthfully reminds me of a rich man's Anthony Clement long term. He def. has great size and physical skills, but lacks true explosion at the point of attack and tends to let guys get too much leverage on him and can struggle due to his height.
