None of this QB talk will ever matter until the Jets have an OL, which the Jes definitely don't have right now. Did you see Tony Romo running for his life in the 4th quarter today unable to make a play even though receivers, including Owens, were wide open against the Giants 2nd string secondary? The Dallas OL couldn't block the Giants DL and Romo, who is a good QB, had no time to hit Owens or Witten or Clayton or Glenn or every other Dallas receiver who were all wide open. The Jet OL blocked like that all year, which explains why both QBs struggled. No QB - not even Brady - can complete passes without time to throw. The OL needs to be fixed on this team in the worst way.
Will it ever happen , I think so. I don't know when all the planets will be in alignment but I can only hope I'm still alive then. I Think the Jets have the making for greatness but its a combination of a million things that has to happen. Our current Defensive woes are a product of force feeding players to perform outside of their talent range. D-rob is better at staying at home and allowing plays to funnel into him rather then generating a pass rush ; Not going to happen(Not big enough). During the season we watched our O-line get blown off the ball and Our Quarter back play suffered as a result. This team needs a major make over that was neglected last year mainly due to a over achieving team that fooled The current coaching staff into thinking they need to plug a few holes and were set to continue winning . There is no other way to explain the weird off season moves that occurred. If the average fan can scream what about the o-line you better believe the Paid coaches know whats broken; or do they? The coming season is important for Mangini and his crew ( including any new staff hired) I don't think he will survive another 4-12 season honestly. If we do have another clunker then we will be right back in the no-mans land we were in when belichick left. Will it ever happen , I don't know. I think if the Offense is addressed through the free agency and Draft the Jets will have a chance next year to at the very least compete for a playoff spot. I don't see a tremendous rebound in this group of guys. just as the opening of the 2007 season we are chocked full of holes. The Defense is another issue But strangely a lot of defenses start off rough and the following year get their legs under them and perform as they are meant to. Theres a ton of money on that line right now and its not producing . I'm not familiar with contract terms but in many case the purging of any of these players would hurt the Jets financially. Things are too shaky right now to say we could ever be as dominate in this league as the Patriots. I see the Jets as One year phenoms when we finally go all the way!
The way you win in the NFL now is the throw the ball down the field. Until the jets do that well they will always be mediocre at best.
I would like to see the FO make these kind of moves FA LG FA RT FA OLB PassRusher FA CB Draft picks Rd 1 QB Andre Woodson Rd 2 OLB Quintin Groves Rd 2 (D-Rob trade) WR Rd 3 DT Rd 3 (Pete Kendall trade)TE Rd 4 OG Rd 5 ILB Rd 6 P Rd 7 OLB
The FA RT will definitely put a lot of wind behind our line. Seriously, if you look at all the teams that are at the top of their game right now; they all have good offensive and defensive lines. Size and ability wise, they all intimidate alot of other teams. Until the Jets have both, we will not contend to go deep into the playoffs at all.
Dallas has one of the best OL in the NFL top 5. The difference between the Pats and Dallas is the Giants had a decimated secondary and put everything into the rush knowing they could not cover and Romo has a weak arm and can't see over the pressure. The Pats kill teams that try and pressure them the destoy the blitz so teams drop back and cover making the Pats OL look far better than it really is. They are real good but not any better than the Cowboys. The Cowboys QB isn't in the same class as Brady and the over all weapons at WR aren't nearly as good. The OL is important real important but the idea that Brady isn't 10X the QB as Romo under pressure is a just nonesense. Welker in the slot is open on every single play and Moss can't be single covered it's certain death. The Giants manned up on Owens yesterday you do that against Moss and the Pats will put up 40.
I have to address certain issues about the views many posters have about this particular team I have to agree that Mangini and Tannenbaum dropped the ball BIG TIME this season, however this coming draft is their 3rd together, it takes sometimes up to 4 - 5 drafts to build a solid playoff/SB contender I think that Tannenbaum really choked during the off season not going after Adalius Thomas more aggressively, but with $27m in cap space this year I sometimes sit back and wonder and don't crucify me for thinking this, if this was NOT Tannenbaum's plan all along to have enough cap space to go strong in the '08 off season? I mean yes we had $10m to spend last season and could have gotten some decent talent, but would we be in the position to purge this team of the Edwards/Bradway signings and ultimately put their own players on this field? Tannenbaum's 2 drafts have netted some damn good players in D'Brick, Mangold, Harris and Revis and we still got Chasney and Clemens. I think with where this team was 2 seasons ago, after H.E. left to what we did with an OBVIOUS soft schedule is a move in the right direction, kinda sorta. I mean you bring in a new coaching staff, you want your own players and this team, ESPECIALLY the defense was built around HERMS vision. It's obvious Mangini is Married to the 3-4 and with only $10m we COULD not fill all the needs we had last season, but with over $20m to spend we can get some SOLID players in both the draft and FA, Plus we can go strong after Suggs, and add Samuels to the D backfield, go after Faneca and get a ROAD GRADER type D.T.. and still have plenty of money to resign our own FA's and draft picks, I'm not much of a capologist, so I don't really know how that works. Maybe I'm delusional I don't know, but I just look at the overall outcome and it is apparent, that the Herm Edwards era is OFFICIALLY over here in New York and Mangini and Tannenbaum have a plan (tongue in cheek), and are hell bent on doing it their way, much to the chagrin of the Jets faithful and the New York media Who knows.
*sigh* I'll bite. Best overall case scenario most likely not will happen: Depth Chart: DEs: Shaun Ellis, Glenn Dorsey or Chris Long, Kenyon Coleman, Mike Devito NT: D-Rob, Sione Pouha, Glenn Dorsey, CJ Mosely OLB: Terrell Suggs, Bryan Thomas, Victor Hobson, David Bowens ILB: Johnathan Vilma, David Harris, Eric Barton, Victor Hobson, Brad Kassell CB: Darrelle Revis, Asante Samuel or Nnamdi Asomugha, Andre Dyson, David Barrett, Justin Miller, Drew Coleman FS: Kerry Rhodes, Kenny Phillips (If Long and Dorsey are gone), Eric Smith, Erik Coleman, Abram Elam The idea is not to add size to the D, it is to add play makers and athletes, along with depth and versatility. Chris Long, while maybe not the prototypical 3-4 end or OLB, will be able to have his talent utilized by the coaching staff, imagine him, Thomas and Suggs all rushing the QB on third downs. At corner if unable to land a big free-agent, I wouldn't count out Andre Dyson to return from whatever nagging injury he had and have a comeback year. At safety is where I think we should really go in the draft, adding another potential Kerry Rhodes will make him able to freelance and wreak havoc more, and vice versa, letting Phillips possibly make plays. Other free agents or draftees I am not aware of at the moment. Realistically, land one big free agent (either Suggs or a corner) and secure either a safety or a 4-3 DT in the draft and it will help.
You missed my point. I wasn't talking about the Pats. I was talking about how a QB's performance is dependent on the time the OL gives him. But since you bring it up . . . . Near the end of last season, the Dolphins blitzed the crap out of Brady and the Pats and were in his face all day. He was rushed all day and was horrible. He threw three interceptions and the Dolphins, a bad team, crushed the Pats. Brady is great. Romo is good. But it doesn't matter how good a QB is if he has no time to throw. Romo had receivers open all over the field in the 4th quarter yesterday but had 2-3 Giants in his face and on his back. He just didn't have time to set his feet and throw even though Owens and Crayton and Witten were open against the JV secondary the Giants ran out there. Brady is a great QB. Put an OL in front of him that doesn't permit him to be touched and give him the weapons he has and you get the ridiculous season he had this year. Manning would have done the same thing with the Pats that Brady did. Brady has all day to throw. If Brady had as little time as Romo had at the end of yesterday's game, he would have had trouble also. Time and pressure are everything, which is a big reason why the Jets stunk this year. No Jet QB had time and the Jets put very little pressure on opposing QB's. Until both of those issues are fixed (along with run blocking and stopping the run) all other discussions are virtually meaningless.
The Pats WR were awful last year bottom of the league awful. Brady has outright destroyed every team that has attempted to blitz him including the Giants. Romo had time yesterday and crapped out.
You must have missed the 4th quarter then because Romo got sacked, pressured, or hit on EVERY pass. WB - you take a contrary position to every opinion I express. I respect your football knowledge, but you are so off base with regard to the 4th quarter of the Giant-Boys game yesterday I just don't understand what you were watching or why you feel compelled to make a ridiculous statement that Romo had time. We can disagree over who should be the Jets' QB or who the Jets should target in FA, but for you to state Romo had time in the 4th quarter is absurd. And you keep going back to Brady when I am making a basic extremely valid point. If a QB is pressured, no matter who he is, he can't make plays. No NFL QB can consistently make plays from his back or with a 300 pound man in his face or on his back. Brady was successful last year and phenomenal this year because he has more time to throw than any QB in the NFL. Last year that got the Patriots to the Championship game. This year, with a stable of targets, he had maybe the greatest year of any QB in history. And while teams may have blitzed Brady, they did not get to him this year. Brady eats lunch in the pocket when he passes. Give Brady 4-5 seconds on every pass with Welker, Moss, Stallworth, Faulk and company and his and the Pats success is not a surprise. Put Brady on the current Jet team, which gave up over 50 sacks and would give him 1-2 seconds to throw and watch the wins and TDs dwindle. Again, my point is that no QB is successful without time to throw. For some reason you can't or won't admit that.
I hate people like you we will never switch to a 4-3 with mangini as our coach so just shut up about it
My position on this board after the 04 season was 05 we would suck because we let the OL go. That if you believe Chad is the man, coming off shoulder surgery we had to not only hold all our assets on the OL but get more. That's the off season people on this board where talking SB if we got Ty Law. That's the season people where hyping Adrian Jones as an adequate replacement for both Fabini and Mackenzie and Becht couldn't catch a cold so good ridence even though he was a key OL player on the best running line this team may have every had. OL is unbelivable important but it doesn't cover up the fact that bad qb play, lousy pocket presence, not being able to stretch the field, having a total lack of cool when there is pressure, not being capable of making big game breaking plays under pressure will hold the entire team back and keep the team from every being a solid contending team. I don't care what kind of line we build, until we have a QB we are building a line that will have very little purpose other than to make us into the KC chief team that won nothing. This team, Mangini and Tanny are building from practically scratch. We need an OL desperately, we need a young QB to build a team around much more desperately. The idea that we should draft a guard in the first round rather than waste it on a QB who might be the leader of this team for the next decade is extremely short sighted. I don't care if it does hold us back from an 8 win season next year. The fact that Tanny might bring Chad back is an indication that the team doesn't believe in Clemens (Although I'm not convinced that's the case yet until I see it) If they don't the Jets are screwed until they get a guy they do believe in on this team. I think that is the single most important thing we can do to secure a future for this franchise. Once we have that player we are building an O with a purpose, to win a SB. You don't need a QB to consistently make plays to win a SB. When two powerhouse teams play in an elimination tournement you need a QB to make the back breaking plays when the opportunity exists. The pressure, the defense is a given at that level it's who makes the plays who can stand in there and deliver the ball when the pressure is on. Chad can be a slightly better than mediocre QB with no pressure so what. To win a SB you need a guy who can stand in against pressure and deliver the knock out punches. If you watched the NE game the single best pass Brady threw was the one to Stallworth that almost went for a TD and did keep a drive moving. Brady was flushed out had a guy practically hanging on him and what looked to be a sure sack or incompletion turned into a big play and if Stallworth doesn't look up at the Jumbotron to see himself running down field is a TD. It was an incredible throw and it could only be made because he had the arm to do it and knew where his guy was and didn't wilt under the pressure. There are people on this board who think Chad is Brady or Rivers or better than Big Ben if he only had an OL. It's a myth, I believe the OL is the key to a good O but without a great leader with great skills, why bother.
Why bother? I wouldimagine it's because once we build a solid or preferably dominating line we will be in a position to plug in a QB. We can go out and pay for a marquee Free Agent, or trade a high pick for a legitimate talent safe in the knowledge that they will be starting behind a solid wall and not running for their lives, trying to win games single-handed. Maybe we get lucky and draft a QB that develops into a star, but acquiring a McNabb or a Quinn or a Leniart or a Rodgers could serve just as well if we're giving them protection.
Now that?s an intelligent post? Nice opinion? what would you propose? You seem like a guy that like to bithch but never has a solution. The real reason for my post was top say that ERIC is very blind with this team. He is trying to implement a system that does not fit his personnel. I also would like to point out that I favor the 4-3 because of our strongest defensive player?.JV. If he is not protected he is yet another waste of a 1st round pick .I think we have had more that enough of those in our storied history?.but what?s one more. Hey maybe he will get traded or something (I?m sure it will come up again this draft and a thread will be started with it just like last year with the skins for Portis). The good teams develop their talent, put that talent in a system that they can succeed. But yeah?great argument?STUPID, DUMB, your mother?what are we in college? Yeah you probably are.. Bring some real insight to the thread or don?t post at all?.DUDE,?..DUUUDE, DUDE!!
Biggest difference {Talent Wise} between Jets' & Pats' is the DL's front 3... IMO. Jets' have a front 1 of D-Rob....not a front 3 yet. Could be a front 2...if Pouha played the other DE position. NT still missing piece & a rotated 4th player that can play DE/NT. Pouha could be that rotational player & then Jets' would need a starting DE & NT.....which they do need anyway. Not a great difference {talent wise} between Jets'/Pats' Lb's & DB's....IMO. We all know that they need a OLB.....Suggs, Gholston, Dansby.....Personally I like F.A....ReggieTorbor...NY Giants alot. Pair him up with one of the named above or another speed/power rusher & wow....Jets' would look very different & be feared... So....I'm realizing that Jets' have to be big players in the F.A. game this off-season, if they seek rapid improvement. There are alot of good DL available.
How hard is it to understand that Mangini runs a hybrid 3-4 defense. That's all there is to it. Mangini isn't blind, dumb, stubborn, etc. He's installing HIS defense. We lived with Herm taking years to install his, so can we just give it a rest and have some patience? Once installed, with the proper personnel aquired, the defense destroys the 4-3. The Vilma argument is overrated. He wasn't a superhero in 2006, but he had over 100 tackles. He will have another nice season playing next to Harris next season. He's certainly a nice player, but even in the 4-3 he was a bit undersized, and he has trouble shedding blocks. That's not Mangini's fault. You really want to base our defense around the deficiencies of one player? I hate the 4-3 zone defense and I am SO f'ing glad it's gone.
