We will see come the opening of the season. I'm betting Pennington will be either elswhere or cut by June 1. If he is on the team and sharing snaps with the first unit come TC, I will be the first to say you told me so.
Only time will tell, Bro. Maybe another Vinny type guy does come available, who knows? Heading into 1998 Glenn Foley was our Clemens and look what happened there.
There was a complete absence of CP throwing the ball longer than 15-20 yards in TC, and i mentioned it a few times. There were a couple of the patented sideline fade patterns here and there by KC, mostly to Mcdroppins, who managed to catch the ball in TC. They showed no vertical offense throughout TC, and at the time, one could only hope they were saving it for the regular season, but that wasnt the case. So, if they really want a fair QB competition, they should give the QBs the opportunity to throw the ball longer than 15-20 yards to get a better idea of who can really run a real offense.
They also never had Chad throw in the first game. All in all, they didn't do anything in preseason to be successful in regular season.
Glenn Foley came into the league in the 1994 draft... He saw game action in 1994, 1995, 1996, and 1997. Clemens came into the league in the 2006 draft. He threw two passes his rookie season, before getting significant time in 7 games in 2007. Foley was also a 7th round draft pick.... He turned 28 in the 1998 season... Clemens was a 2nd round draft pick... He is 24... 1998 Foley is NOTHING like 2008 Kellen
I didn't say they were identical, but were in very similar situations. Both were supposed to be the guy and given the chance a few times. Also, I don't think Foley was here or played in 1994, he got hurt for the year in his first game in 1995 and saw very limited action (if any) behind O'Donnell and Reich in 1996. He looked good in spots in 1997, again behind O'Donnell, and was supposed to be the guy for the first time going into 1998. He even did well in the first game before getting injured and opening the door for Vinny.
If by a few you mean one. How in the world would a rookie head coach come in, draft a 2nd round QB, and tell a guy who just rehabbed 2 shoulder surgeries that has led the team previously that he better get himself a seat warmer? There would be mutiny. Rookies rarely start unless they are Peyton Manning or Carson Palmer. Clemens has had one real chance and it was this season.
The staff came here with no loyalties. If anything, Clemens was the guy they drafted, they inherited Chad and Bollinger, Ramsey was the best guy they could scrape out of the dumpster. So Clemens got as fair a chance as anyone. He got another chance this year, will get another next camp. That will be his third chance, about the same number of chances Foley got before Vinny took over for good.
Oh so when Foley sees limited action or none at all, it's not a chance. But when Kellen throws two passes in a season, that is a full blown chance. Why hasn't he run away with the job?! Christ, he's played in 7 games.
It was just a fucking example, calm down. Simply making a parallel of which the meaning was totally lost on you guys, you're so damn defensive about Clemens. Point being, they were in similar situations going into the season and in Foley's case the complete unexpected happened. Nobody was going into 1998 thinking about Vinny being our QB. Anything can happen. My earlier observation about Chad staying is based on what we, and the football world, know as of now in terms of what our alternatives are.
Where are the facts that Clemen was comparable? he wasn't close. Chad play poorly but he was MUCH better than KC. Clemens has a stronger arm and can run, that's it. Chad bloes him away in every other category. Clemens is incredibly inaccurate, he makes poor decisions, holds onto the ball too long,... when a guy throws 5 less INTs and more TDs w/ about the same # of attempts that player is much better. I don't want to hear the excuses about 1 guyhaving experience and the other not. When Chad stepped in during the '02 season the Jets were in bad shape and he had no experience yet he led us to a div title and led the NFL in passing. How in the World can you compare this season to what Walton did in '86? Walton had an experienced, quality backup in Pat ryan. We had a an inexperienced guy in Kc who has proven so far to be one of the worst QBs in the league. That doesn't mean he won't get better(I fully expect him to get alot better) but had we stuck w/ KC after the Bal game our record would have been as bad or worse. Now it's experience, funny how Chad had no experience and walked into a worse situation in 2002 yet he thrived. The receivers were "disinterested" in catching balls? No offense but that's just asinine. He played very well against NE(if not for an awful KC INT we have a great chance to win that game) and decent against Ten. Those 2 teams had alot to play for and we had nothing. the fact we were even close says something. KC's INts were not a result of taking good chances, they were more a result of his innacurate passing. Kellen was 3-4 now? he was 3-5 as a starter, we woud have been blown out just like at Dallas had Kc stayed in that NE game and that INT he threw put us in bad spot but Chad kept us competitive and KC was awful for 55 mins againt Pitt, awful for 60 mins gainst KC and the D forced a million TOs at Miami. That's why we won 3 w/ him starting. Once again why do drops count for KC and not for Chad? Our receivers had critical drops for Chad against NYG, Philly, at NE and more and you fail to menton how KC was awful those games so why do we neglect that an put it all on the receivers? if he wan't brutal 3+ qtrs against Bal we win, if he wasn't brutal 3+ qtrs against Wash we win. As far as the WRs go, he got Coles injured w/ that underthrow to Coles aginst Pitt. If it's a decent throw Coles walks into the EZ untouched and doesn't hur his ankle. secondly, Cotchery missed ONE game- the Miami game. Coles missed 3- wash, Dal and KC- again thanks to KC's underthrow. Coles also missed 2 games while Chad was playing.
I can't understand how this argument is still active, it was quite obvious to me that they both stunk equally. At least with Clemens there is hope for improvement given his age and experience. Given the mess that is our qb situation, I hope this FO is giving a long hard look at the top QBs of this draft. There is a chance that we could have our pick of the top guy, Clemens hasn't shown enough to pass on another possible franchise QB.
W/ Chad there is a track record. This was Chad's first year of poor QB play and KC showed us absolutely nothing. Chad may be done, Kc may turn out to be really good but right now chad is better and deserves a chance to be our starting QB again.
Again, KC needs to be in there a full year. If Chad starts again, it will be anothere year of 5 yard dumps and 10 yard hail marry's. Remember when people in here weren't making excuses about our OL being bad, Chad still just dumped it off. Can we ever move on?
^^^nyjunc and jetzIII, I think great arguments for debate can be made for both sides of this. I think the most important thing to realize is that this is a very difficult decision for Mangini/Tannenbaum to make. I don't think it is simple by any stretch; there is a better than 50/50 chance that we could get burnt by what ever decision is made. Those are not good odds.
junc, i generally enjoy sparring this out with you, but now you're getting delirious. I am halfway supporting your man love of Chad here, and you dont get it? HOW COULD OUR RECORD HAVE BEEN WORSE, we one ONE GAME. If Clemens stays in while Chads ankle is injured, Maybe we beat buffalo once or twice,Maybe we beat cincy... But by the time the Bye week rolls around Chad is healthy, and maybe...just maybe we win a couple down the stretch...(a couple more than we did.......) My point simply,(in deference to you...) is this, if you reverse the starts the two players made, we probably win closer to 8 games... (i.e. Captain Checkdown doesnt blow those games in the fourth quarter, maybe Clemens only wins 2 or 3 besides Miami....) And that brings us back to Walton....It's EXACTLY the same situation. The Refusal to take your lumps and go to the back up early, screws you AFTER the starter loses 5 games.
Starting Chad is like starting Dikembe Mutombo at Center right now. How's that for parallel? This was Kellen's only chance, with less experience, with the sucky O-Line the great Completer played behind, with less receivers to throw to. You would be inaccurate shooting a pistol if 3 ninjas were coming at you with knives all the time. 1. How in the freaking hell was Chad's situation worse? He didn't have experience but was more learned in the offense by one year, and got to sit and chill behind our GOOD o-line. With a BETTER record (1-4) than when Kellen came in (1-7), with a HOF RB. That shit just doesn't make sense. 2. I was kidding fool. 3. He really did play a good game against NE. He threw everything that was given to him like you ask of a QB. Mostly those were 5 yards down field, but the throw to Jmac in the back was nice, and the throw to Baker behind the defender that landed in Baker's stomach was excellent. Now what would you have done if you were Kellen? You have a 290 pound guy coming at you full speed 1.5 seconds after you got from the squat position from your center's ass, he hits you when you are in the process of throwing to the only guy you've had a chance to look at, and it comes out wobbly and as slow as CP pass. A safety and the subsequent short field possession would have more than likely led to 9. Everyone already crushed your idea about this situation in the gamethread, so why don't you just shut the hell up about it? Yeah Chad's 6 point game against Tenn was SWEET! That's exactly what you want out of a 6 year vet. Don't be foolish. That pick when he went deep to Cotchery was an obvious "old, washed up, I can still do this" throw. If you hate interceptions so much, than don't go there with the "Tenn game was decent" 1 td, 2 ints. Against a team that let JIM SORGI score 7 points against them in limited playing time. Anytime you can say Jim Sorgi managed more points than your starting QB, you are in deep shit. 4. 2 of KC's picks were garbage time, try to make something happen because Chad's already lost us the game picks. Another was that Pats one. Whatever you want to see I guess.
The Ne game was all Chad. Kellen played 1 series so don't even try it! Kellen came within a dropped pass of going to Ot v.s. Baltimore, A dropped pass from winning the Redskin game and the Jets destroyed the Dolphins like they should have while he was in and not escape the Phins like Chads did when he got his one layup win for the season. Chad lost to BUFFALO twice, Philly and had the luxury of playing against the swiss cheese secondaries of Cincy and the NYG. The Team did not give up one sack when he played the Giants! In 2002 Chad stepped in to a top three offensive line, a young Coles at Wr a good defense and the person who should be given the most credit for him sticking around this long in FUTURE HOF RB CURTIS MARTIN!!!!!!!
