The beginning of the solution for the Jets QB position is to fix the offensive line. Nothing that they do before that will matter because there's no QB that would do well behind the line the way it is currently constituted. I want to see the Jets draft a mid-round QB to come in and compete behind Clemens and learn the system. That's the best way to move forward from where we are at the moment. Take next season to fix the line and have a few young QB's in the mix to grab the reins if the fix works.
Yeah, for every Leon Washington in the 4th Round there are hundreds of busts. Getting rid of Chad to go look for an unproven rookie isn't my idea of QB security. Problem is, Chad's a really expensive option. If Clemens had finished out the season showing the same kind of promise we saw early on (Ravens game, for instance), we wouldn't even be having this discussion. Now, I see no alternative but to keep Chad, who will not restructure and who is hell bent on either (a) being a starter somewhere or (b) remaining here under his present contract at a very expensive salary. We're out of reasonably good options now and it's got to bite us on the ass one way or another, either by "wasting" draft picks or spending valuable Salary Cap or both. The worst part is, even doing that doesn't guarantee that we still won't suck next year.
Josh Johnson really intrigues me. Unfortunately, because of where he played I've never seen him play and I doubt anyone else here has, either. Stanford head coach Jim Harbaugh thinks Johnson is better than all the other potential 2008 QB draft picks. Mark me down for going into 2008 with Clemens on the team and Pennington elsewhere. As highly as I think of Pennington as a person and competitor and team leader, I just don't think he can excel physically anymore.
QBs are a commodity, hard to find a good one, so simple supply and demand tells you they are worth more money if you have a good one. Chad is an offensive captain, knows the offense, is respected by the team and meets all the intelligence and charactar criteria this coaching staff wants. We have cap room, I don't see the wisdom in getting rid of him for a mid round draft pick. Just the security blanket he provides and his role in helping Clemens, should Clemens be the starter, are worth the money.
According to the Star-Ledger the other day, Penny already stated that he won't be "forcing" anything. True to form (and one of the intangibles I absolutely love about Penny), is that he says he will NOT make a stink about being traded if the Jets want him to play out his contract. He will remain here because he has a contract with the Jets. BUT (and reading between the lines), it is also apparent that he will not restructure. And he also states that he wants to start somewhere. So, Penny still has some leverage... that being... if we want to keep him here as a backup, we'll have to continue paying him the $4.6 or whatever per year. It's that or trade him, which I'm now very uncomfortable with, considering anyone else we bring in for depth behind Clemens is definitely NOT going to be even close in terms of knowing the system, knowing the personnel, knowing the AFC East competition, being the mentor he is, etc., etc.
This sounds like a good plan to me. We will be rebuilding next year anyway so let one of the kids take the reigns so we can move on to the next level.
I don't think things are quite this bad. Clemens' decision making and throwing started to deteriorate after he became well aware that his offensive line was about as bad as it gets. He also could not integrate any running game because it was so inconsistent for the same offensive line reason. I look at how did he perform when things were right vs. how he performed when all the cards were stacked against him. We he had time to pass he threw pretty darned good. He proved his arm was stronger than Pennington's, but in order to exploit that, he has to have more time. Time to pass was generally no where to be had behind our line. He had at most 2 and a half seconds; sometimes even less. What does that do? It completely limits the routes and the types of throws. Throw into the mix that the offensive line eventually allowed Clemens to be injured and one can see why his confidence may have been shaken. Here is what I did notice about Clemens: Much harder to tackle for a sack than Pennington Much faster runner than Pennington - more mobility When given time, a reasonably accurate passer A stronger arm than Pennington Look at the throw he made in the last game against KC. I beleive it was a play action that did give him time to go for Cotchery downfield. The guy threw it 60 yards in the air when it was raining and sleeting and it hit Cotchery right in the hands. You can't ask much more out of a QB than that in terms of the most demanding deep throw in the NFL. Cotchery dropped it, but that is not Clemens fault. I have painfully watched every game this year. We were actually better under Clemens with a horrible line than we were with Pennington with a horrible line. The difference is somewhat hard to detect because the differences did not translate directly into points. This is my broken record speech: Fix the offensive line first and give Clemens the ball for the '08 season. If he has a running game he can generally rely on and an offensive line that may not be perfect, but does offer him more protection Clemens will come through or at least can be evaluated properly without any excuses. Trade Pennington in the off-season this year. Why? It is not that I am on the Chad is bad bandwagon, but given the QB's that are out on the FA market as well as in the draft vs. the needs of at least 4 teams that I can think of, Chad will have value. When you factor in Chad's age and injury history which still cannot be over-looked, the time to get this done is now. Next year may be more cap friendly, but also might have fewer options.
I got the exact same thing from that statement that you did. He's saying we signed a contract, I'll honor it and not be a dick about it, but you do the same.
I don't know what to make of that. 1) He wants to be a starter. 2) He's not going to restructure. 3) He's not going to force anything. So if the FO is going to stick with Clemens, Penny will be unhappy here. He'd be a great backup QB if he were willing to take a pay cut but that doesn't sound like it's in the cards. It seems like we're stuck between a rock and a hard place.
That is the problem. I respect Chad for wanting to be a starting Qb in the league but the F/O has to realize that he is not a starter for us long term and let him go so they can move on and fix this mess.
We have a good QB, his name is Chad. Give him a line, a running game, and decent play calling and he is a top 10QB in the league. He gives us plenty of time to find the long term solution.
The sky isn't falling yet for the Jet QB situation. Our main concern this off season is strengthing the OL by free agency or the draft. I could live with Pennington as our QB if our OL is one of the top lines in the NFL. I still believe Pennington with the right cast can win you games in today's NFL. Clemens is still a work in progress and isn't ready quite yet to be our starting QB. Focusing on the OL will help both our rushing game and passing game.
As everyone knows, the QB position is the most important position on the field and this is something we can't wait on. The QB leads the offense and effects the defense. As we saw this year, our defense was CONSTANTLY on the field. We can't wait to see if Clemens turns out alright because he showed NOTHING in his starts this season. He made bad decision after bad decision and didn't look comfortable behind center, even in the final game of the season. You can blame it on the OL, but you can't tell me you can't blame it on Clemens also. There was no other reason that Mangini started Clemens this season was to see what he had. I understand he was a 2nd Round pick, however I don't think Mangini wants to waste two seasons on Clemens when his own job will be on the line next season. I say the Jets take a stand and draft a true Franchise QB with the #6 pick and fill holes with the rest of their picks and through FA. It's about time we had a Manning or Brady of our own.
We essentially are stuck. If I didn't believe that I was starting material in the NFL and was in Chad's situation and were asked to take a pay cut, then I certainly would consider it. In Chad's case and rightfully so, IMO, he believes he is a starting QB and he believes he can play for a lot of teams in the NFL. Under this scenario, will he take a pay cut........no chance. Chad has always displayed great character. That is why he has said - I am under contract and I will honor it regardless of my role on the team. I see the Jets as having absolutely zero leverage in getting Chad to take a pay cut, unless they want to give him $1M a season through 2050. Either the Jets pay Chad the money and likely have an internally unhappy player on the team who for the most part will keep quiet publically or they try to negotiate a trade that would be a winning situation for everyone. The later makes the most sense.
I don't see it as a difficult situation at all. He has a contract to be here, he said he's going to honor it, so whether or not he wants to leave it doesn't matter. Of course he wants to be a starter, all signs point to that being determined in camp. Mangini twice this week declined to name a starter, saying it will have to be determined. There is no football between now and camp, so if Chad is a backup it will be his own doing and that will be that.
Against LSU in 2005, Ainge threw the most ill-advised pass I ever saw on the college level. But, that was just one play. He might be okay in the NFL. I don't think he's particularly stout in any aspect of QB play. I think he'll see NFL playing time at some point in the future, but whether or not he will be a viable starter is unknown. I'd rather the Jets spend a 4th round pick on Ainge than a 1 on Brohm or Woodson. (I had liked Woodson until October of this year. The more I saw of him, the less I liked him. His throwing motion should be a problem. He might be another David Carr.) Matt Ryan is the interesting one. He might actually be worth a 1st round selection.
I haven't abandoned fixing the O-line as Priority One. This goes without saying, now so more than ever. In fact, I've been pounding the table on this right along and all throughout the McFadden fixation several weeks ago. But in this thread, I'm asking responders to opine on what to do about the QB situation, O-line excluded. I'm thinking now that, given what Penny has stated and given Clemens' latest performances, we're pretty much forced to do nothing! No changes except, as you say, to draft somebody in the mid rounds which, in this mediocre lot, almost assures us of basically just another body. We're really damned if we do and damned if we don't. So I'm agreeing with your above post. It's just that I'm kind of disgusted that it's come to that as it almost assures us again of yet another "rebuilding" season. Year after year, another "rebuild." Sorry fellas, just venting. I was hoping we could be contenders a year from now...
If Mangini is a good coach, the Jets will compete for a playoff spot next year. If they don't compete for one, well...
