This season is on Mangini's head

You and I just don't see eye to eye on just about anything. This post is filled with mistatements. First, as far as I can see, the Hudson rail yards are still a wasteland of nothing. To criticize Johnson for wanting to put hundreds of millions of his own money to build a stadium that would have added hundreds of millions to NYC's revenue. Dolan and the policitians blocked that move, not Johnson. And anyone siding with Dolan after the past year . .. . . . Meanwhile, the Jets (and Giants) play in the biggest market in the nation, yet rank in the bottom third of the NFL in revenue. What would you have the owner do? And don't start the ridiculous Queens thing again.

Herm did not leave for money. He left because the Chiefs were his dream job, Peterson is his buddy, and the Jets really didn't want him after he courted the Chiefs.

Belichick left BEFORE Johnson bought the Jets. To blame him for something that happened before he owned the team is a little petty, don't you think? As for Parcells, Johnson begged Parcells to stay and offered him a blank check to stay on as coach and Parcells turned him down. As for Parcells, he may be a HOF coach, but he is a miserable two-faced human being who cannot be trusted. He can't take or leave a job without hurting someone else.

As for the parking - the problem is the Sports Authority not the Jets. The Jets are not building Xanadu. The Jets did not decide to leave up the lame duck Izod Arena. When you add those two things to the construction of the new stadiuim, how would you handle parking? Make it a first come first serve free for all??

Owners have very little to do with the success of a team. If you think Johnson is making football decision, you are crazy. As for the big name free agent thing - most are overpaid and don't pan out. Who are the Patriots big name free agent signings before they signed Thomas this year?? The Jets were modeling themselves after the Pats, who built their team through the draft and by signing mid-level free agents who outperformed their contracts. Would you rather the Jets do things the way the Redskins do it? Every year they are February's team, signing big name players left and right. Most of those players aren't on the team anymore and they don't win.

So your are siding with Dolan and Zoffinger and Edwards and Parcells over Johnson. What a crew!!!

Lastly, in one thread you say this season is not Mangini's fault, but in this thread you criticize the owner and blame the team's failure on his unwillingness to spend big money on a CS. So who would you have had the Jets bring in two years ago? Or now? I'd like to hear it.

 

Again, Woody is not making these football decisions - Tanny and your favorite whipping boy Bradway have been making these decisions. They are the ones you should be blaming as well as Herm and Manny. Now if you want to say that Woody should take heat for being hands off and/or say that he has hired terrible GM's and HC's that would be diiferent and I would somewhat agree with you. But I wouldn't say he is cheap or directly responsibile for the lack of Top Tier FA's coming here.

You can't "buy" a championship caliber team by signing a bunch of top tier FA's - just look at the Skins. You sign a top FA when you are a player or two away from being a championship team. We were not a player or two away in the last 7 years.

Putting my own stamp on this, Tanny is an accountant. I'm a CPA by trade, and I can tell you that we accountants are very cost conscious and conservative. I feel that Tanny is being overly cautious when it comes to the cap and doesn't want to take a risk of it getting out of hand again. I would have least spent what was left of this years cap resigning or extending contracts to the extent possible and blame Tanny for not doing that.

 

We really don't agree on much but I respect the way you respond.

I like Mangini alot, I have no issue with him. I would have fired Jay Cross for the way he bungled the WSH. I wouldn't have screwed over the season ticket holders with the parking scam when I was about to build a stadium and make their life hell.

The WSS was always a real estate deal and the money he was puttin up was essentially a land steal. You can already see what's going on at Xanadua, they ripped off the league and will rip off the fans.

Herm left for money I will always believe that and I have no problem for not wanting to pay him since he wasn't very good. I certainly believe Mangini was brought in because of his relationship with Tanny and the fact that he got him for cheap money didn't hurt. They should have surrounded him with former HC and paid top dollar to lure some of the great talent from both the pros and college but instead the went outright cheap across the board with the staff. Washington picked up Al Saunders to be their OC when we promoted a 28 year old Shot from QB coach to our OC. I have a feeling Saunders might have cost a few more bucks?

BB left for money as did Groh, Herm and Parcells.

The wait list scam is another sign of a cheap scrooge like owner.

 

Yes, but last year Schotty was the second coming and Saunders has done nothing in Washington to make me think he is worth the money. What former HCs were out there and willing to become coordinators. Vermiel struck lightning in a bottle in 99 with that plan, but it doesn't always work. And who are the Patriots coordinators and how much are they being paid?? Paying big money to coaches doesn't always yield results.

As for the former HCs- BB did not leave for money - and he left before Johnson owned the team. Please acknowledge that. As for Groh - he was not HC material and is barely holding on in UVA. Were you really unhappy to see him go when he turned a SB team into a 9-7 team? Same with Edwards. The Jets didn't "lose" him. Parcell did not leave for money at all. He quit coaching after 99 and stayed on as GM. Johnson offered him a blank check to coach in 00 after Groh left and Parcell turned it down because he was through, not because of the money. Then two years later he showed up in Dallas. It's not the money with Parcells - he's just the Larry Brown of the NFL.

While we can argue over the WSS and we all hate the parking, please put the blame for the current situation where it belongs - not with the NFL or the Jets or Giants (aren't the Giants using the same parking system, by the way?), but where it belongs - with the NJ Sports Authority.

 

<<BB left for money as did Groh, Herm and Parcells>> - 100% disagree. Please let me know why you feel this way. As WWS (Willie White Shoes) and I both stated, Tuna was given a blank check to stay. Tuna decided to retire (again) after is contarct expired. Did he retire (again) from Dallas because of money? No - he has a habit of retiring for a year every 3-4 years. I don't see how you can blame Woody or call him cheap because of this. Please explain.

As far as Belifraud, he no longer wanted to be associated with Parcells and had a good relationship with Kraft from his days at NE, so opted for that opportunity instead. It had nothing to do with money. Even if you disagree with this, as WWS stated BB left before Woody bought the team. So how can you possibly pin this one on Woody?

Groh - decided to accept his dream job at his Alma Mater. Had nothing to do with money. Did Nick Saban leave the Dolphins because of money?

Herm - As WWS and I both stated, the Chiefs were Herm's dream job. Herm wanted more money also, but as you stated yourself you can't blame Woody for not paying him. So why are you blaming Woody for being cheap in this instance? You can't have it both ways here.

<<The WSS was always a real estate deal and the money he was puttin up was essentially a land steal>> - As I stated previously, I'm certain this whole thing was killed by the politicians. That being said, no one was interested in the land at the time, so why shouldn't Woody try to get the land for as little as possible? I call that prudent and wise business practice. When you make an initial offer on a house, do you offer market value or try to low ball and get it for as little as possible?

<<They should have surrounded him with former HC and paid top dollar to lure some of the great talent from both the pros and college>> - Woody hired Tanny to make these decisions, so I fail to see where Woody should be blamed for the supporting cast that Tanny/Manny hired. Why shouldn't the owner allow his GM to hire his HC and supporting staff? If you want to claim cheapness here, then blame Tanny and Manny.

<<Washington picked up Al Saunders to be their OC when we promoted a 28 year old Shot from QB coach to our OC. I have a feeling Saunders might have cost a few more bucks?>> That's because Daniel Snyder is a hands on owner who makes many, if not most of these type of decisions. Here Tanny and/or Manny makes those decisions and they should be the ones you are blaming.

<<The wait list scam is another sign of a cheap scrooge like owner>> Not cheapness, but greed - a trait of most if not all sports owners.

 

I'm not sorry, it shows exactly what a fake he is. I love to see peoples' true colors. I'm sure his rapier wit is a big hit in those high-powered business meetings.

 

Excellent post Mrs. Mangini :smile:


Seriously excellent points Winston.

I figured there was a shot at .500. LOL that was wildly misplaced expectations.

I do not have the time to properly reply as I got to go get a few presents (I digress).

He has made a bunch of mistakes to be sure. However this team is not giving up like the Ravens, Raiders and some of the other teams. This team is prepared and the game plans look like they are pretty damn good. I really think this team was not talented enough at the positions that would/should/could have made the Jets be 3-4-5-6 games better.

Again, Mangini has to be held accountable for some of the mistakes. However, many of the holes/flaws on this team need to be corrected because of 5 years of neglect not so much for Mangini being a mistake or making one.

 

QFT.

These holes on the roster are nothing time can't fix.

 

Give him one more year. If he is this stubborn next year when we are again getting the crap kicked out of us, then lose him.

 

After so many years of hoping, I have no more hope that Mangini will see and address the needs, namely the OL and DL and a OLB. He continues to play players out of position, Hobson is an ILB and not an OLB. DRob is not a NT. Pouha is a much better NT than DRob but try telling that to Mangini. Vilma is not a 3-4 ILB. Leon Washington and Baker are underutilized on offense. What's Clarke doing playing at LG? The Jets need another five O linemen. Imagine what would happen if Ferguson and Mangold get hurt. There is not depth at all. Sure, he picked up Harris this year but what happens if he gets hurt? Who steps up?

 

2 years is alot to you? Or are you taking out your impatience with the Jets on the current coach?

And I think Mangini knows that DRob is not a legit NT, that Hobson is not the ideal OLB, that Vilma was not a 3-4 ILB...you see he didn't actually pick those guys.

 

Mangini has turned out to be a continuation of Herm. The same vanilla offense and a defense that has players out of position. When Herm took over he hired a 3-4 coach and then switched to the 4-3 when he had 3-4 personnel. DRob was a very expensive pick but at least he did well when playing next to Jason Ferguson. After three years or so Herm had the defense playing well. When Mangini came, he destroyed any chance that Vilma, DRob, Hobson, Barton, Ellis (remember the big contract he got which we have to eat now?) of playing well which they had been doing in the 4-3 under Herm.
So basically the last two coaches have stubbornly implemented a defensive system that does not fit the players. How smart or stupid is that? What do the results say?

 

Kotite didn't take us to the playoffs in his first season when no one expected us to do anything.

Got to love when a guy is hailed as Mangenius one minute and the next it's off with his head he hit a bump.

 

Kotite had the team playing well through the third quarter and the start of the forth quarter. His team was ahead into the fourth quarter for ten or eleven games. He just couldn't hold the lead in the fourth quarter. When you look at it that way he was a good coach for the first three quarters and a bad one for the fourth quarter. Mangini built a lot of high expectations after last year. Many were saying that he should have been given a long term contract. Now after this season those expectations were dashed. I spoke with his uncle a few weeks ago and he said that the whole family is so mad at him that they don't invite him anymore.

 

This sucks I had a long post all ready to go and I had to link a freaking youtube clip and had to download something to play it on my computer and low and behold I deleted the entire GD thing...................woops.

I am not in the mood to try and remember what was in it.

Look I agree this season has been a disaster. As fun as last years was this year has been as depressing. Oh well.

Without getting into what went wrong, I want to see what Mangini is going to do to both improve himself and this team. By improving himself, I want to see which coaches get the axe. Believe me that shoe is going to fall and several assistants are going bye-bye. Obviously with better asst's he will look better.
First one, I would axe is Tony Wise.............. this is the speech I would give to him and some others:

My speech

Also, he is going to have time to hire who he wants. As opposed to when he was hired, they had little time to assemble a staff. Last year it was difficult to fire people when the team was successful as a whole. This year it is way way easier. Obviously he has to balance who stays and who goes and too much change vs. too little.

As far as improving the players, hopefully this year will be better than last. As it stands right now there are many more and better options than what was available last year. How many 2006 FA's that everybody was clamoring for are setting the world on fire this year? The answer is not too many.

The Jets indigenous problems have been brewing since 2000 the first and last draft that added a substantial amount of players of worth besides the last 2. The prior regime just drafted terribly and let some of the hallmarks of a Parcells team die on the vine and or walk in free agency. What were strong points became areas of great concern. Do I need to list them? probably not for you............ as you know them.

Mangini had to come in and right a ship that has been essentially sinking for 5 years. Sorry but to use this analogy, you can not pump out the water and shore up the hull overnight.

Like I said, some of the mistakes are on him. They have to be and he has to be held accountable. Same as Schottenheimer and Sutton ( Who I think may be a casualty) and so on down the line.


I apologize my original reply was better than this disjointed nonsense. Well in my opinion anyway...................

 

I'm sorry, what?

5-11 still sucks.

6-10 still sucks.

3-12 still sucks.

If you're not going to the playoffs, it sucks.

Would you actually be happy with a 5 win season? A 6 win season?

Nothing but 10+ wins would have pleased anyone. This is not a 10+ win team. Considering that the team plays hard, he hasn't lost the locker room, and the talent level is up, I still see little to complain about. It's not like I expected much this season.

 

Um...DRob, Hobson, Ellis, and Barton have all played similarly or better under Mangini. They may not fit the scheme, but they are what he had to work with and the fact that none of them but Vilma failed in the 3-4 probably says more about Vilma than Mangini, no?

See....Herm had YOUNG 3-4 players under him. Abe in his prime, Ellis in his prime, Fergy in his prime...on offense Chad, a kickass O-line, a great RB, Coles, Chrebet...

Mangini had Ellis at 30 and fat, no starting corners, one offensive linemen who was both healthy and played passably in 2005, Chad after 2 surgeries and a big contract, no #28, Coles in his late 20's/early 30's after years of punishment, no Chrebet....

Small difference in circumstances...