Yeah I know it is patently obvious he (Kellen Clemens) is going to be a bust. I found this at the Jetsblog.com -I did not write or research this, someone else was kind enough to do the work. I am just using it to prove to all the know it all, GM wannabes that it is almost impossible to tell how good/bad Clemens will end up..................... TheJetsBlog.com So as I was poking through various websites and blogs (other than this one) this past week, I couldn?t help but be mildly surprised by the number of people out there (especially media) seemingly all ready to declare a new quarterback controversy in New York and that Kellen Clemens may not the Jets quarterback of the future. Of course, when the switch was made to Clemens, I expected growing pains. But has he been experiencing normal struggles, or is he really behind the learning curve? I keep telling myself that he?s only had six starts, with a questionable offensive line and not a full complement of weapons, and it?s unfair to judge him so quickly. It just doesn?t seem like enough to me, yet there seems to be a multitude of people out there ready to declare him ?done.? Just to have some fun and make sure I wasn?t looking at him with rose-colored glasses, I?ve taken Clemens? stats from his first 6 full starts ? which do NOT include the mop-up duty vs. New England or Buffalo, or the one pass last week ? and compared them to two other quarterbacks with high expectations in their first six starts. As you can see, the numbers are almost identical in many categories, even worse in others. But you ask, who are the young quarterbacks? Check it out after the jump. Quarterback A is Peyton Manning in his first 6 starts with the Indianapolis Colts, while Quarterback B is Carson Palmer in his first 6 starts with Cincinnatti Bengals. I picked these two guys because I thought they might be comparable for a few reasons. Each had high expectations on them as #1 overall picks (which can be as tough as playing in New York) and each took over the reins of struggling offenses and teams (I think the Jets can now be classified as such). I understand that both Manning and Palmer started as rookies, but I think that?s sort of balanced by the fact that by their draft slots, they both were more polished than Clemens coming out of college. Obviously, this wasn?t scientific. Believe it or not, I had no idea what their numbers would be when I thought of these two players, and was moderately surprised to see that they were so close. These were also the only two I checked ? I?m sure cases could be made with other players. I didn?t choose Brady or Roethlisberger, for example, because they both inherited teams that were clearly championship caliber. Anyway, I?m not saying Clemens will be as good as either of those players ? although I?d be ecstatic if he was ? I?m just trying to reinforce my point that it?s way too early to give up.
There's one difference. Peyton and Carson were expected to do big things out of the gate, as in make up big chunks of score to compensate for their teams' hapless defenses (at the time, in Indy's case). Kellen hasn't really been asked to carry the team on his back so much as be a game manager that can occasionally toss a deep ball as a change of pace. That being said, I agree that we, as fans, should give Clemens more time before we say to bench him. What's the alternative? More of Chad and his not-very-high ceiling?
Thats not really true. They were expected to become great players, but as you can see if you actually LOOK at the numbers, the yards per attempt, and yards per completion are nearly identical. OTOH, (And I am not going back to do roster research), But I am fairly certain that both Manning and Palmer were throwing the ball to better wideouts, than Wallace Wright (who has shown potential), McCraphands, and Chris Davis. At no point in his tenure as a starter has Clemens had the benefit of a healthy Coles and Cotchery, which is the one reason all the people that are down on him, are giving you a clue as to how competently they evaluate the game....... The one BIG upside of this (getting off quarterbacks for a minute) has been the fact that ths crappy reciever situation has been forcing the team to FINALLY start using Baker.
McCraphands :rofl: This should be etched in stone as his true and only nickname. I totally agree with the first post. It is too early to judge Clemens, and it is interesting that there are statistical similarities to Carson Plamer and Manning, as you siad I do think QB A and B had better receivers and also probably had a better offensive line. That said, one could argue that Clemens is doing just fine given the set of circumstances, but it would be ridiculous at this point to even suggest he could be better. I wish we all could just look at where we are and what we are doing for what it is until next year. Next year is when we have the right to start really holding Clemens to some accountability.
http://forums.theganggreen.com/showthread.php?t=27351 I went down a similar path a couple of weeks ago, when trying to enlighten some on how it is way too early to give up on Clemens...
So to sum up the thread: There is absolutely no way, from the Tuna himself to my little sister, to know what kind of QB our own Kellen Clemens will turn out to be based on the limited set of data available at this present time. The rest is just conjecture.
No. We have some solid evidence to go on. A:We know that his accuracy improved every year as a starter in college. B:He beat up on second tier competition in the Pre season...... C:Now, he has played well, in spots, and has been grotesquely victimized by throwing the ball to guys that wouldnt be third recievers on most teams. D:With the worst OL in the NFL. It is reasonable to deduce that if you fix C: and D: he will be no worse than average. And that means he is a guy you can build a team around.....(Like Vinny when Parcells brought him here....) Vinny was a guy with a high Interception rate? Why? Because he was always asked to throw the ball down the sidelines....High Risk throws... How do you fix that....Wayne Chrebet, and the Number one pick opverall on a dominant posession receiver. And if you remember Parcells spent alot of time teaching Keyshawn to CATCH the Damn Ball early on (two feet down, thumbs always together etc...) In fact that is a nother indictment on the current Coaching staff....after Baltimore, McCraphands should ahve had his own assistant and juggs machine, and done nothing but catch balls thumbs together day in and day out....
please dont start this...dont put Kellen in the same category as these two...aside from the fact that he is 5 feet tall...i have not seen him make any plays this year in the pocket..sure he can scramble .. sure once in a while he throws it deep but the majority of the time he has happy feet and gets blinded like a deer in headlights...I really dont think this guy is the answer...of course i am still partial to chad being that I am a big fan, so I will reserve my bust talk till next year...FYI get rid of MANGINI!
Disagree.... All these QB's were put in the starting lineup to WIN GAMES.... Before they settled in and got proper protection and help, they all struggle.
I don't think anyone was trying to put Clemens in the same category as the other guys. The statistics were interesting and proved the point that we should wait before we judge. The same is true of Mangini. If we were 6-8 right now would you feel better about they guy? Our offensive line would still be bad and we would still need to address key areas of the deffense. My point is whether we are 3-11 or 6-8, it doesn't change anything; we are not going to the playoffs. I almost thank God that our problems became as glaring as they did. It is a no-brainer on what should be done. I am not saying that I am glad we lost, but I am saying there is little ambiguity. It is too early to judge Mangini either. Next year is the year of judgement for him. We do not need to necessarily make the playoffs, but we do have to show radical improvement. I would say we have to get to at least 7-9 next year or even higher or Mangini is toast.
I love the thread. We are being to critical of him to early. Quaterbacks just don't come out and be all stars, the process of development takes awhile..I want long term results and that takes a little patience on the fans' side. So have some backbone, be in it for the long haul and have some faith in the kid.
This comparison is just stupid. Why don't you pull up Ryan Leaf's numbers or Akili Smiths numbers or how about the other 1000000 busts. It would mean just as much as this does. One has absolutely nothing ot do with the other.
No one can tell with only 5 games under his belt what Clemens will be. I only hope that he's well enogh to play this Sunday and the last game to see if there's hope for 2008.
Smith, and even more so Leaf had stats that in comparison put Clemens in the same ranks as the opther guys. Clemens was drafted in part, because he had the same intelligence and intangibles in college as Pennington. The other two were drafted on a Physicality basis. There is a big difference between those two different types of QB. What you are looking for in Clemens is a guy that can be Somewhere between OBrien in 85-86, and Rich Gannon under Gruden.....
Clemens does not seem to be accurate and has made bad decisions with the football. I was happy to see Pennington back. Chad made some nice throws and I think only problem with Chad is when the defense expects that out pattern they put a guy in position to go for the ball nad leve one to cover. That and of course the reluctance to throw that deep ball as the chance of a duck is higher with Chad. Clemens has a good arm...but so did Vick, and Vick never got accurate. Anyway, lets wait till next year and see what Mangini decides. Happy Holidays!
Actually that makes it MORESO correct..... LOL....More correct.. Corrector? Either way... Clemens is pretty much as expected at this point.
So compare Palmer and Clemens, why Manning? This is BS put together to make people think they are not seeing what they are seeing on a weekly basis. An over matched QB that doesn't even show flashes of being capable at this point.
