On the reverse, Put KC or Chad behind the Pats OL and watch them pick defenses apart. An offense lives and dies on the OL.
It's funny you said this. Even though it would never happen, Chad in NE would do great. The team would not be as electrifying as it is now offensively, but they still would be in the playoffs and vying for the SB on a consistent basis.
Great quarterbacks are judged by how well they do under pressure. So far KC has been anything but spectacular. I understand it's his first year, but let's not forget that Detroit made the same argument about Joey Harrington for years before deciding to move on. I don't want the Jets in that position.
I really think that the pressure KC has been under is off the charts. We have the worst offensive line in the NFl or clearly it is in the bottom five. The guy has no time to make decisions. He has been getting hammered every game; and we have a poor running game due to an offensive line that can't open a crack let alone a hole. I really do not think there is a QB on the planet that can conquer the stituation we have put KC in. The man simply has a horrible supporting cast in both trenches. If just our defense was playing extremely well and holding tems to uner 15 points a game regulary we could have a better argument even with our horrible offensive line, but because we stink on both sides of the ball it is totally unfair to point the finger at KC. If Mangini addresses our glaring needs in the off-season and everyone can agree that we are definitely better and KC comes out and does similar things next year which cost us games then we have a good case to go in another direction.
Green Hornet, so if the pressure KC is under is off the charts is it the same for Chad? If so, in my opinion, Chad has played better than Kellen. So if we went to the playoffs last year without a running game and a subpar defense with Chad why couldn't we go further with a decent running game and an average defense? Or do we fix the O-line and defense and then see if we have a QB?
With a top 5 Defense a top 3 OL and running game Chad is a 10 win QB without the shoulder injury. Why would you want to rebuild the team and than put a 33 plus year old QB with a damaged shoulder in to make two or three year run? Clemens or someone we don't have yet that is the option. Chad is toast with this club. He had multiple chances with the tools and either got hurt or didn't get it done.
Good points. I think Chad will be under immense pressure, too, for the remaining games. I think the reason Chad has appeared better and statisically is better, is because of the types of throws Chad attempts relative to the types of throws Clemens attempts and also Chad has abundantly more experience. Clemens has a better arm and a whole other throw portfolio comes in to play. That will take everyone some time to adjust to - CS and receivers. I don't think the offensive line play becomes as glaring an issue with Chad because he rarely tries to throw the ball further than 15 yards which doesn't take much time and often throws when the receiver hasn't even begun to look yet. Chad is more in synch with the team as a whole. Benching Chad came not totally because of Chad's play, which arguably has not been up to Pennington standards this year, but because we as a team became mathematically eliminated from any playoff bid. Chad can not be blamed as the key, but he did have a contribution in it; bad run stopping abilty by the defense, and the offensive line consistenly not being able to establish any running game - plus, against fairly physical defenses they were always getting pushed 2 yards backwards also did not help the cause. Testing Clemens out the rest of the year makes a huge amount of sense if you're trying to figure out where the team is and how it lines up for next year. Now that Clemens may be injured - to the extent we will never know the truth. The Jets don't even talk about if a player has a hang nail; Clemens may see action at some point with the remaining games to play, but I would not put Pennington in; I would start Tui.
Too much reasonable thinking in this thread for this forum. Absolutely agree that it is impossible to draw conclusions about KC playing behind this o-line. They need to address it in free agency and focus the draft on improving the pass rush and getting some offensive weapons.
So if we can build the O-line some this offseason and the D some this offseason and Clemens stinks up the joint then what? The next offseason we finish the D and O-line and we don't have a QB. Throw a rookie in there or get a journey man vet to man the position? So then we now become the Baltimore Ravens in 2 years. Chad also led a 20th ranked rushing attack and a 20th ranked defense to 10 wins last year. Chad will be 32 next year and has plenty for a 3 year run. The real question, is does Kellen have anything to be a starter? I don't know and I don't trust anyone currently in the orginization to make that decision.
Chad had a 5 year run and we know for a fact he doesn't have the goods and he is worse than he was in either 02 or 04. The than what is Clemens and we need to keep drafting a development QB every year until we have one we like or if we like Anderson or Quinn? We make a hard move this off season.
Yeah, it is time to trade Chad while there is some market value. I will be sorry to see him go and I do have some pretty good memories of the guy and what he did. That was then and this is reality. We have a team to build and the pick we get from Chad could be very important.
I think Chad will be traded, but I dont' necessarily think the team will be better for it in the long run.
Yep. One of the things that's keeping me positive on Clemens is that he is not checking down and settling for what the defense will give him on every play. He's going to need to improve on his decision-making a lot before he's a plus but at least he could be that plus. Chad is always limited not only by what his teammates will support but also by what the defense will allow. that's just too many limitations for me to want to see him moving forward.
How is it impossible to draw conclusions from the situation he's in right now? Things will never be "perfect" condition, so you have to judge players based on what they're given. Yes, Clemens has been under pressure A LOT. How does he react to this? He chucks it into heavy coverage and hopes for the best, instead of just throwing it away. Being pressured is part of the position, and I think it's absurd to simply discount his mistakes as "oh, it doesn't count because he had defenders in his face". Give any competent QB loads of time and they'll ALL make something happen eventually. It's what the QB does when times aren't swell that distinguishes him from the crowd. So, how does Clemens handle himself when he actually does have time? It's still a mixed bag. Sometimes he'll dazzle us with his arm strength (which fans here have a tendency to overrate, simply due to our previous QB's weaknesses), and other times he'll STILL chuck it into heavy coverage for picks (or near picks). You'll also notice how he just loves to stare down a single receiver, along with holding on to the ball for an eternity. Not all of the sacks are the O-Line's fault, you know. Before I sound like a KC-hater, I do agree that he's a better option in there than Pennington now. We know Chad won't get us anywhere, but with KC, there's still hope. However, based on what we've seen, there's just no way someone can actually be optimistic about him. I'd rather the Jets bring in an insurance QB just in case things don't pan out.
Sorry Tampa I have to disagree. In 5 short games I see Clemens as a 100% definitive bust. Despite the fact that the two best WR's have been injured, the Oline is sieve like, the remaining Wr's can not catch the ball or be remotely depended on, has more wins than the beloved HOF'er benched for him, led the team on some convincing game tying and winning drives all in his first 6 games........................... he clearly is a bust. I mean geez if Dan Marino or someone lesser like a Romo (after riding the pine for 4 years) can come in and immediately set the world on fire so should Clemens. I mean that is a reasonable expectation isn't it?
The demands of the OP are unreasonable. A QB should be able to turn a franchise around no matter how bad the other guys suck. Clemens doesn't have "IT" man and without "IT" how do you expect a guy to succeed?
I have to disagree here. To date, it has been really hard to see what "IT" is. It is hard to evaluate "IT" when the offensive and defensive lines are playing like "SHIT". Let's give Clemens a supporting cast before we really start looking at "IT". The pre-season will start to unveil some of "IT", but we really may have to wait until about the 4th game of next year before we can judge whether "IT" has passed us by.
I'm hoping that this post is meant in jest and filled with sarcasm... if not, please read on. This response serves as a qualifier for everyone who is diagreeing with your agrument. your trying to compare him to young Marino, who was on a Super Bowl Team as a rookie and Romo, who had 4 years of nothing but studying the NFL offense he is now running, AND was on a playoff team to start with last year and is on the team that should go to the Super Bowl from the NFC this year. Are you kidding or just delusional???? We had no chance of making the playoffs this year with Clemens or Pennington at the helm. But Fantasy land took up residence here on the board and proclaimed us a playoff team and ready to challenge the Patriots... then Fantasy Land got bitch slapped by the Rhelm of Reality . Now panic has set in among those residents of fantasy land that have just realized... yes, we are still a team in transition and re-building. YES, I said it... the dreaded R word... Reality tells me we are Re-Building... when both your Lines suck, you are most definately RE-BUILDING. So to answer this question: The answer is an emphatic HELL NO!!!
Wow just Wow................. Can you please do me a favor? Click on my last 10 Football forum posts. Read them. Then re-read the post you quoted a few times and then my post should be crystal clear.
