I don't buy that Mangini's issues have to do with not having enough time to get the right players in.... 14 of our 22 starters, on offense and defense, were either brought in, or promoted to their current starting standing by Mangini.... Those who weren't, are some of our top performers. Coles, Baker, Moore, Robertson, Ellis, Hobson, Barton, Rhodes.... Stubbornness (scheme wise, and when dealing with personnel), poor offseason talent evaluation, and poor in game play calling have been this team's demise..... Those all fall on the HC... Now, that being said, I don't currently see a guy other than Cowher who I believe can come in here and right this ship, and I want someone with experience here, because the last two HC's have come in raw, and made too many mistakes to count.... One name I'd like to throw out (though it's a major long shot, so don't call me an idiot for throwing it out there ) is Joe Gibbs. He's supposedly going to be out of Washington at the end of the season... I'd love to see what he could do, if he were willing to come here and try to right our squad.
This is no way near as bad as Joe Walton's last 2 years, Coslet and the end and of course Richie boy. We have much more talent then those years plus I still like Tangini. I fully expect them to learn from there mistakes and staighten this mess out. That's not to say its has not been tough but sorry, its not even close to the worst. And when you fell sorry for yourself, think about the fans of the Lions, Cardinals, Cleveland, Minnesota who rarley make the playoffs and have horrible front offices.
I won't call you an idiot but I will call you crazy.. Joe Gibbs? The game has clearly passed him by, if he leaves the Redskins he will hopefully retire for good and go back to nascar(where he should never have left in the first place) I also disagree with the talent, this team does not have nearly enough talent to compete with the big boys. It doesn't help Mangini that his starting QB was damaged goods either. The best players on this team are players that this regime has brought in or promoted to the starting position. The FO has brought in some talent, they need to bring in more this offseason. Mangini deserves at least one more year to right the ship unless there was a clear upgrade available, ie. Cowher. There isn't going to be though..
While I agree that we don't have enough talent now, the point I was trying to make was that Mangini has had the opportunity to bring talent in, and has opted for guys like Andre Dyson, Kenyon Coleman, Anthony Clement, Adrien Clarke, etc.... But I do agree that it would be bush league to fire Mangini without having a clear replacement lined up. And yes, my Gibbs suggestion was a bit amateurish, but I guess I just see those titles with WAS and start to drool.... There is bound to be plenty of firings at the end of this season though... If anyone with any sort of decent resume becomes available, however, I'd be very tempted to make the move...
One Dyson was a Tannenbaum player. He loves him. Besides Dyson while not great, has played ok, and Coleman has played better. Coleman will be north of 80 tackles at the end of the season.
Tackles are not a good... In fact a BAD way of gauging how a 3-4 DE is playing... Coleman has shown flashes here and there (just as he did in limited time in Dallas) but has been largely invisible, making tackles and jumping on piles 4+ yards down the field.... He has a good motor, as most DL don't bother to chase plays down like he does, but he is just plain BAD at the point of attack
I totally agree about Parcells. Some like him, and some hate him, but he did come in here and do exactly what he said he was going to do; right the ship and establish a winning attitude. After Kotite; another mega-low point, we all needed it.
You know whats interesting about that. It's true, but it made me think about the whole "Mangini guy" thing. Everyone swore up and down that they didn't want a guy like TO here. I can't even imagine how many said the same thing about Moss. Hell I'll admit I may even have been one of them. These guys are the two best WR's in the NFL right now. Yea there mouthy, but FFS they get the job done. You have to wonder if Mangini is afraid of people like them. Too afraid to bring a guy like that in for fear that he won't able to control them in the locker room. Guys like that are just fine when you win, but as soon as the losses start rolling in, they tell it like it is. Mangini doesn't seem like the kind of guy that can take that criticism. He needs to thicken his skin and find his sack this offseason. He needs too add some talent too. If he doesn't, we'll continue to be "the best of the worst" and alternate terrible seasons with average ones and end up running in place as mentioned by the thread starter.
This is not a horrible idea, but I don't think the Jets are ready to go, in yet, another direction with a new coach even though the performance of our team didn't really live up to the talent level. Talent level in terms of; we shuld be around 7-9 for the season instead of 3-13 to 5-11(optimistic). I think this fall-off year drives home the reality of just how poorly managed our talent pool was during the Herm era. This was the year that we had to pay the piper for Herm's mismanagement. For this reason, I really thing Mangini is definitely going to get a pass on this year, but he will be seriously under the microscope in the off-season during the FA market, the draft, and preparation for next year. Then ovbviously, it continues into next year. We do not necessarily have to make the playoffs next year for it to be a success, but I think we really have to be in the hunt for the playoffs and the Jets, as a team, must show real signs of serious improvement or next year will be Mangini's last.
That is 1 rough roster of names to look at. I had 3 vomits + 2 craps in the john after looking at those players. Even those Haight & Cadigan draft picks (yawn) were fillers at positions at best. Toon, O'Brien & Rob Moore were the only ones that didnt make me feel nausceous.
My take on a few things here: -We have been this low many times the last 20 years. I found Herms last season as our couch to be much more disappointing. I can think of at least 3 other seasons that hurt as much as this. - Those who want Cowher better come up with a great offensive mind because Cowher is not it. In fact it took him 10 years to aquire a halfway decent QB. -Everyone like our rookies and thats the future. Usually we have to wait for the future to actually happen. Thats why its called the future and not the present. -The only new coach that would be good for us is Parcells. And man, that would make for some great games against NE.
I have been at this now for the better part of 37 years and remain hopefull. We are maybe 2 wins from I thought we would be and at this point, that is a plus because this draft is so important. A great proverb once said "you cannot make chicken salad out of chicken shit" and that is what we are trying to do. This team has some components of the engine but the overall horsepower is big time lacking (see Jets trying to score from 1 against Cleveland). I doubt it could be remotely possible but the playcalling at times seems like they know that our future depends on a low round pick(s) too. Last weeks play calling looked like it was designed for Chad, not Kellen. The losses are so close yet so far away. I really wonder what the conversations between Eric and Woody are like. I have seen enough 7-10 win seasons and one and done playoff games to last a lifetime. Maybe this poor season is what we need to garner the players in the draft to build a little more. Now it is up to the mgt. I would like to see deals made where we end up with someone elses 1st round pick for the next 2-3 years. We need beef, then playmakers.
You're right, he was hailed as a genius all of those years he stuck it out with Kordell Freaking Stewart. Bill Cowher may have won a ring, but he has also done some idiot things as a head coach. I'll pass.
Talking about replacing Mangini is waste of time and the people who do so know nothing about the Jets. Mangini is going to be here next year so shutup and go away. The players are the only thing that's going to change.
I know everyone thinks Bill Parcells walks on water, so when he says "You are what your record says you are," all Jets fans are supposed to accept that as absolute fact. But I happen to think this team is better than 3-10 (soon to be 3-11). We hung with Chad 2-3 games too long and that cost us dearly in the W-L column. No one... NO ONE, could have predicted how badly Chad would screw up, but when we all finally came to our senses (including the CS, and did something about it, our season was already seriously in the tank. Then what? We have to throw the inexperienced Kellen Clemens into the lion pit for some on-the-job training and that too has caused our W-L column to suffer even more. So, just the QB situation ALONE has caused a major hit to the W-L column. Does that truly make us a 3-11 team? Well, from the technically numerical point, yes, but a lot of things could have been different. And I'd like to think things will be different (just in the QB department alone) come next year. I still like what I see in the kid and want to see a whole season under his belt next year before putting myself on suicide watch. I also think that while our new QB is maturing, so too is the CS. They've got to be stunned and embarrassed beyond belief over this season as virtually no one saw this coming... not the CS, not the ownership, not the players and certainly not us fans. So this is all a huge wake-up call for everybody, not the least of which is Mangini and Tannenbaum. I expect them to roll up their sleeves and bust their balls this offseason to turn things around. And if I don't see major improvement next year, THEN I'm going to be on the warpath big time. As far as a team being "what their record says they are," while that's a great, one-line, contrite, Parcell's-type wisecrack, I still say it's not always the case. Look at our record last year, for instance. Were we a 10-6 team? Hell no, we were worse than a 10-6 team, IMO. Conversely, and for the same reason, we're not a 3-11 team this year either, we're better than that IMO. BTW... Joe Gibbs? Good God, the man suffers from such dementia that he's not even aware that his DC puts 10 men on the field in "missing formation" mode. Cowher? He burned himself out in Pittsburgh after so many seasons there, what makes anyone think he's fresh enough to want to get back in now and do a good job? No, I'll take my chances with MAngini and Tannenbaum. They've made some very costly errors this year but I think the two of them are really smart individuals and good football guys, smart enough and good enough to learn from their horrendous mistakes and decisions this year, learn from them and use them to move forward next season.
Minnesota does not belong there. Off the top of my head, I'm going to say the Vikings have made 24 playoff appearances which would place them 6th all-time. (If I am off a bit with those numbers, I will post the correct ones later.)
I think Parcells, Gibbs and Cowher are past their prime. Silly question. Has an NFL coach ever won a Superbowl, left his Superbowl team, then won another Lombardi with his second team? I tend to think that when a coach either burns out where he has done well, or gets thrown out where he is done well, he is not apt to regain form. Those are all Hall of Fame type guys, but I wouldn't count on their getting back to the promised land. I wouldn't have gone with someone as young as Mangini, but once you take such a gamble, one might want to give it time to pay off or absolutely fail. Every time one switches coaches and schemes, it takes years to get the right players to match the current coaches. If one gives up too quickly, one never gets there. Teams that are constantly shifting coaches, coordinators, schemes and players are perpetually lost and eternally mediocre. At the same time, if a coach isn't getting the job done, you can't give him all the time in the world. I'd give Mangini a year or two more, not that I've seen in him any signs of greatness. Anyway, next year the AFC East sees the AFC West and NFC West. Lots of messed up teams out West. The AFC East should feel right at home. I'd hope your front office finds some good players somehow, and give it at least one more go.
