I wouldn't have if you didn't say we've been used to those types of #s for years. Just for fun though let's compare their st 3 starts: Chadvs. KC, vs. Min, vs. Cle): 65-84, 77%, 744 yds, 8.86 YPA, 5 TDs, 2 INTs, 113 rating KC: 56-110, 51%, 648 yds, 5.9 YPA, 3 TDs, 3 INTs, 67 rating Remember YOU brought up comparing their #s saying we have been seeing the same #s for years. I praised KC for his ability to put an awful game behind him and lead us on the tying drive. That, to me, is more important than #s but since you asked about the #s I provided. You are arguing for no reason, I want KC in there to see wha he can do b/c the season has been lost. My point in this thread was to shut down some of the silly talk about KC being great on Sunday b/c he wasawful for 57 mins BUT he stepped up when it counted which was impresive and important in his develoment. he's not going to be perfect, I just want to see him improve and he has been doing that overall. We did average more PPG w/ Chad than we are w/ KC. It's not a matter of the NFL "catching up" w/ Chad. He put up points throughout his career, if they caught up w/ him he wouldn't have had succes post '02. He didn't look right this season, something was wrong whether it was mental or physical but whatever it was he didn't look like the same guy we saw even last year. This year that may be true but how was he so successful throughout his career prior to '07? You can't say b/c he suced in '07 that he sucked thoughout his career b/c that's not true.
You have to admit though Junc....he became more frustating to watch as his career went on. Teams in his first couple years respected what wasnt there...his constant inability to threaten the entire field. Now I know you will respond about a bomb here..and a bomb there...but for some reason teams played the Jets differently then they played almost every other team. They bunched the line even when Curtis was here his last couple years. Hey..bottom line is that we both agree the KC wasnt great this past weekend...but he did show a mental toughness against a pretty good defense. We both agree at 2-8, lets find out what this kid is made of.
To be fair, teams are bunching the line against us still, but I agree it's for different reasons. Teams will do it to a young QB until he can prove he can consistently throw an accurate deep ball. Clemens does have a very strong arm, but his passes have been off and the playcalling has still been a lot of dinks and dunks with an occassional deep pass. I don't think it's been called enough to loosen up the defenses yet though. The kid can definitely sling it though. The one thing I love about him is his ability to not let a bad game affect him. So far we've seen him play poorly for most of the game twice (Ravens & Steelers) but still drive the team down at the end. If not for butterfingers, who knows what could have happened in the Ravens game if he catches that pass because I think that just would have tied it. The ability to not dwell on a bad game is huge and can't be overlooked.
If we get a running game going, like last week, look for teams to crowd the LOS more. This should open up playaction down the seam. This is where you hurt a team that brings a safety up because the middle safety playing thirds has to make a decision on the seam routes, that is if the OC actually had some routes that puts pressure on the safety that is back.
Looks like Clemens has a pretty good playaction fake too. That TD to Baker fooled just about the whole Steelers' team and Baker was wide open. No one better to learn that from than Chad. His fake is still one of the best.
in all honesty after the flea flicker, clemens played kind of crappy. he made a bunch of throws that were off target badly. he is not very accurate, but i hope he improves...we need it! his timing is another issue that needs resolved. i will cut him some slack though.....its very early in his career. his arm is good but it is not a rocket launcher!!! i do like his ability to scramble, it beats the hell out of a sack or throw away anytime!
This year he was incredibly frustrating to watch b/c we had chances to win every week(except week 1) in the 4th qtr and he couldn't get it done. Last year he played great considering what he had to work w/(no D, mediocre Ol, no running game). We definitely didn't attack downfield enough. Absolutely. Again I am very encouraged by his mental toughness to come back after a poor game overall and still make plays on that final drive to tie it. I like what I have seen overall I just want to see him keep making progress.
People have very short memories. People forget how many times Pennington, prior to this year, led the Jets to game tying or winning scores or potential game tying or wining scores only to have the defense let them down. People also forget how good Pennington was when he first started to play. I agree with the QB change on a number of fronts - it's time to see what Clemens has, the season is lost, and Pennington was not playing well. But the last two games did prove a couple of things that people just can't seem to get into their heads. The 2-8 record has very little to do with the QB play and almost everything to do with a horrible Jet defense, no running game, poor coaching, and terrible game plans. The difference between Sunday and the rest of the season was that the Jet defense played incredibly well and the Jets ran the ball. Other than the last 3 minutes, Clemens was not good. I hope he gets better and I am willing to wait. The point NYJUNC is making, which I agree with, is that if Pennington were the QB Sunday and played the identical game that Clemens did, most people on this board would be shouting for his head, deriding him for underthrowing Coles, talking about how he can't score TDs against good defenses, and how he was bailed out by the defense and special teams. They would say he didn't carry the team on his shoulders and lead his team to a win when the rest of the team put him in a position to do so. That's the point. People see what they want to see and people saw #11 and not #10 and that made them analyze the game differently. So let's stop this simplistic analysis of the Jets by pinning this season on Pennington. We all know he will be somewhere else next year. He has represented this team well on and off the field and come back from some horrific injuries. He has carried himself with class and is handling this benching the same way. And let's hope Clemens matures into a top tier NFL QB. Let's hope he can play with poise for 60 minutes instead of 3. Let's hope he improves his accuracy, because in today's NFL, a completion percentage of under 60% and TD ratio below 1.5 or 2 to 1 doesn't cut it.
I'v really been impressed with the way he has lead this team with under 2 mins to go in a game... If not for the JMac drop vs Baltimore, the Cotchery drop vs the Redskins in O.T... This kid would have already led us to 3 comeback wins on the final drive with under 2 mins to go... That says alot in itself alone... Not only has he shown me that he has the Arm to be a top 5 QB in the league... But he has also shown me that he is not scared of top ranked Defenses and that he has the smarts to be a top QB for years to come. And to think I was against the Jets drafting this kid... For once I can say I'm thankfull I was wrong.
1st Bold: That's because you cannot reasonably evaluate a QB with the limited amount of experience that Clemens has the same way you evaluate a seasoned veteran. I think everyone would agree that if Clemens doesn't progress and continues to play at the same level people will be looking for his head on a plate as well. 2nd Bold: Most reasonable posters do not blame the entire seasons lack of success on Pennington. Nor do we expect a dramatic turnaround in which the team runs the table and makes a trip to the SB. The reasonable posters just saw that Penny was no longer the right QB for our terrible team and wanted to make the switch to ensure that our QB position could be properly evaluated headed into the draft. I know the quality posters on this board and I didn't see any of them "talking crazy" blaming Penny and I don't see any of them "talking crazy" in their evaluation of Clemens and where he is currently in his progression as a starter.
Right on. Finally a ray of positive hope and common sense. I feel we have found our QB as well. Clearly, we have a way to go, but now we can build our offense around his strenghts and make him more successful. As a result: a) the OL can play more aggressive and be beefed up through the draft recognizing the KC does not necessarily need as much time on the pocket and can create plays with his legs on a pinch. b) the value of having or acquiring a speedy wide receiver in free agency increases greatly...we can now have a deep threat c) the runnig game will begin to open up. d) the opposing defenses will not just play the short pass and suffocate us, thus our TEs will be more effective e) screen passes will be more effective f) We can focus the draft on defense first, defense second and OL line after that
KC was brutal yesterday and he had many opportunities to have success, his accuracy is just awful. If only we had Chad's head w/ KC's arm we'd have a HOFer. Clemens is all over the place w/ his throws. Yesterday was a major step back, hopefully he bounces back at Miami.
agree 100%.... clemens is very inaccurate. he moves well but he has to. if chad had clemens arm he would be compared to peyton, provided he had the receivers, which he does not, never had either.
Yesterday wasn't a 'major step back', it was simply the first of his 4 starts where he truly looked like a QB with as little experience as he has.... Jay Cutler has had games like that in probably one of every three starts he's had since last season... We as Jet fans were spoiled by Pennington's quick emergence in 2002, and Clemens unexpected solid play in his first three starts... Fact of the matter is that starts like yesterday, for a young QB on a struggling team, are going to happen.... They need to in order for him to learn. You don't progress without ever facing adversity, end of story. We ALL said when he was FINALLY given the starting job that we were going to need at least an 8 game sample from him as a starter to truly evaluate whether or not he is our QB of the future.... We're looking for a foundation from which he can build a good career. We're not looking for him to be a superstar right away. Bottom line is, there is no such thing as a "Major step back," for a QB in his third game as the starter, and 4th game overall...... It's all part of the learning process...
Of course people would be shouting for Penningtons head if he had the same game KC had. He is 10 years older and two should surgerys worse off. The team was 2-8 going into this game and thats the guy you want to rebuild around. Nobody is defending the game KC had....Nobody knows what KC's future is. The only thing WE are sure about is that Pennington isnt the future at all...so lets move one and find out if KC is....and if KC isnt...lets move on again. Asking why people arent calling for KC's head but would if it were Chad makes no sense at all. Ones a kid...the others "good days" are long gone.
He has now started 4 games and has played ONE good game and 2 other good qtrs from the other 3 games so 10 of his 16 qtrs he's been bad. That might be true but KC was Mireresque yesterday and that's never good no matter what stage of your development you are in. I don't disagree which is why I said I am interested to see how he bounces back in Miami. I disagree w/that. he was awful for 57 mins against Pitt but made plays to tie the game making that game a success but now he builds on that by playing one of the worst games I have ever seen by a QB- that's a major step back. I meant KC's arm strength, so Chad would have a better arm couple w/ great accuracy and smarts.
Chad folded like an accordion against almost every good defense the Jets faced in his career. He held his own occasionally if the other team's offense was as bad as the Jets performance on the day. Smart? Yes. Iron leader marching the Jets down the field in the clutch? That's laughable.
We don't know that Pennington will be gone next year, we don't know anything about next year. We may be saddled with terrible QB play for years if Clemens doesn't work out.
