Here is Johny post I quoted: Which I totally agree with. First if I am going to call a poster out for lack of common sense, I quote and name that poster. You know, I have done it to you, Bradwaysux on numerous occasions and never for lack of common sense. Bradway is just a pissed off Jet fan. It is cool because he is a true Jet fan and I kind of sorta know where he is coming from. I think he is wrong but I am sure he thinks I am equally as wrong. **** I changed the wording I should not have called Bradway bitter........ Pissed off is better**** Where does this lead me, good question? I think the talent level that Mangini and Tannenbam inherited was complete dogshit. Among the worst in the NFL. Now I put that into context because in the NFL you are never far from the mean in terms of talent (except the Dolphins where the cupboard is bare). Look back on the past 10 drafts of the Jets. What level of young talent have the FO's been able to bring in? IMO, They have drafted piss freaking poor with exception of the 2000 draft, 06 and 07. It took the Jets 2-3 years to fully realize the talent that the 2000 draft brought in. That draft sustained the Jets for a good 5 years. It was the backbone, as well as a few lucky free agent pickups, that allowed Herm to at least get this team into the playoffs. However in the last 5 years (really 01-06), poor drafting, even poorer personnel decisions have destroyed what was once very good O-lines and D-lines. Now fast forward to this year. The FO and CS got the most out of a depleted roster, a good draft and not so strong schedule to go 10-6. In 07' they imo drafted excellent by going with quality over quantity. In hindsight I still think the moves look good. However, they did not game plan for a QB performance that was among the worst I have ever seen from a starting Jets QB, really really bad LG play and a regression of Vilma and Robertson that is beyond illogical. Again, this is not a 1 1/2 year plan. All the NFL coaches that surprised to the upside last year have turned to shit this year. So far only Payton has righted the ship, and that is because Brees finally woke up and is playing lights out. So yeah it is common sense when you look at the Jets problems. This team is not going to become uber talented in just 1 1/2 years. Factor in a really weak draft and free agent class of 06' and it only exacerbates the problem somewhat. Now as far as your NT question. It is common sense to believe that Mangini thought Robertson could have a decent season this year and not have a ridiculous regression. Did he think he was somehow going to transform to a Wilfork or a Williams? ............. highly doubtful but I will give him the benefit of the doubt that Dewayne could be a stop gap till they drafted/signed the future NT he could rely on. Unfortunately, DR is proving to not even be a stop gap but a big orange cone that we normally see on the side of the road. I am not a dark sider nor a sunny sider (although it seems that way). I am giving Mangini the benefit of the doubt. I never thought he was the genius everyone thought last year and do not think he is the dupe everyone thinks this year. This team is not far from being decent and only a few players are required to make them competitive. Unfortunately they are some of the most difficult players to find with the exception of OG's and RT. I do not think competent people that difficult to find there. Tannenbaum on the other hand has been imo very good. Yeah, I know how can you say that with a 1-8 team. I think teams in the NFL are built through the draft. He has drafted excellent. It seems they have a plan for a specific draft and execute it rather well. Even using hindsight he makes very good trades and never seems to get the worst of any of them. I suppose Barlow is held up as an example but can anyone not deny that RB was woefully lacking when they made that deal. As far as contract negotiations many feel he has mixed results. The typical responses are Kendall, Revis and Thomas. Well 1 by 1: Thomas- Thomas's contract was rather cheap considering it was thought by many that he finally found his niche, had a career year and if he hit the free agent market would have garnered drastically more. Revis- It is still a 6 year contract no matter how stupid the beat writers are and how erroneously they report info. If Revis is the real deal and becomes a truly elite CB then 14-16 mil over the last 2 years of that contract are a bargain. The last 2 years are at the Jets option so if he is good they buy him. If he sucks sayonara Darrelle. Kendall- Where they fucked up here is the replacement not in getting rid of him. I guarantee if you beak off at your place of work, like this knucklehead, you are on the unemployment line that day. He was a classless douche in 2 other venues. A quick aside: I was always told if someone thinks you are an ahole it may be a personality clash however if everyone thinks you are an ahole than chances are, you are an ahole. So getting rid of him was not the mistake, replacing him with the horse turd Clarke was. So in summation. 1.) The talent Mangini inherited was woeful even by NFL standards. 2.) Mangini is neither as good or as bad as he was in 06 or 07 respectively. 3.) It is going to take another year or so for the good drafts to start to kick in. 4.) Tannenbaum is already on his way to being a good GM. 5.) No NFL team becomes elite blowing up their front office and coaching staff every 2 years. It is a development process. 6.) NT was not thought to be the gaping hole that it is today. Robertson was an ok stop gap. His regression is confounding. 7.) The sky is not falling although the Jets are not a good team right now. With that said have teams in worse shape been turned around quicker? Yes Have they been perfect? Hell no Are the Jets better off today then they were in 05'? Do I really have to answer that? Ok here was my common sense post about the Jets................ comprende? Edit: Yes I think the distinct lack of common sense and patience exhibited by most on this board is unnerving and bordering on the absurd. I suppose that is why it is a fan board............... Further edit: This time I did not mean to single you out. But I wonder why I struck a nerve?:smile: <--------- See Smiley
This is not the post of a bitter fan. it is the post of a fan who is disappointed in how the CS and FO mishandled the off-season. I cant read your entire post, puck. Send me the cliffnotes when you get a chance. i skimmed thru it, and i agree this is not a good team. They ignored the OL, and other than Kenyon, they made no improvements to the DL. Dont be so naive to think they have this surefire plan in place. You think you arent a sunshiner, but your post is oozing with koolaide. They went after a couple of guys in the draft they liked, traded away picks, signed an older RB, let their starting LG go with no plan B in place, and have coached this season like a bunch of vaginas. If they had a plan they stuck to, they would have concentrated on rebuilding the OL and DL as a PRIORITY. How many DL have they drafted in two years? One? devito? look at the poll here, and see what the posters voted as the number one problem on the team. I have seen too many blunders committed and CS ineptness this season to give them my undivided confidence. i hope they improve at their jobs, and make the team better, but until they do, i will continue to point out their mistakes, while they go 1-8. That isnt bitter- that is realistic.
So if some thinks there is a plan in place then they are a sunshiner? The draft was universally regarded as a weak draft (including for OL). A year after going for quantity, the FO chose quality. I think most teams would trade a number of their picks if they could 2 high quality long-term starters which is what the early returns on Revis and Harris are suggesting. How can you say "if they had a plan they stuck to they would have rebuilt the lines?" Obviously, the plan was NOT to spend money/picks on O-lineman. They thought an adequate replacement for Kendall was all they needed. Furthermore, they inherited the plan for the D-line with two big contracts for Ellis / Robertson and then added K.Coleman. How quickly people forget...4 years ago, people were crying on here about drafting "another d-lineman" in the Vilma draft when the name Wilfork was suggested. Again, in running the 3-4 the Jets need 3 starting defensive lineman. They have two signed to massive contracts and added a third in the off-season. I am pretty sure many people would be yelling about "drafting back-ups if the Jets went d-line in the draft on someone other than NT (of which there were none.) Obviously the FO/CS have made mistakes both in the offseason and on gameday. But, I have yet to hear anyone put forth a reasonable idea of how the Jets could have added two high quality O-lineman, a NT, a DE and a pass-rushing OLB this past off-season without mortaging the (salary cap) future of the organization. Please enlighten me on how that could have happened.
It's clear to me that this CS has grossly overvalued the talent they had, and the FA talent they have brought in. While they have drafted nicely, their evaluations of existing players sucks. They thought wrong. I didnt post here four years ago, and I usually dont get involved in posting about who to take in the draft. So i dont care about who was crying about who to draft foour years ago. They've made a bunch of them, and a few beauts, too. Too many to have undivided confidence in them. If they dont turn it around next season, they should be gone. You want to see a good coaching job this season? look at how jauron got a depleted Bills team to 4-4, with no #1 QB, devastating injuries, and the Kevin Everett thing. I dont see enough good leadership by this CS to suggest they are a long term solution. When all his posts are a front for "giving them the benefit of the doubt", yup.
The last two Jets head coaches have had no prior head coaching experience at any level above semi-pro (in Australia.) The last two Jets GM's have had no prior general management experience. We've been on a rollercoaster in that time in which the Jets highs have been medium and their lows have been the pits. I would think that it might be time for Woody to do what Leon Hess finally did and hand the reins over to a proven winner who might be in a bit over his head as GM, but who also understands absolutely where you need to be to get to the top of the league. Bill Parcells gave us the best year a Jets coach has produced in 30+ years in 1998. He engineered a rapid and forceful turnaround that completely revamped the Jets roster and changed the Jets fortunes from poor to promising. Bill Cowher is probably the person most likely to be able to do this for us again.
Blah blah blah blah............. If you do not have time to read my post whatever. FYP btw. So I am a sunshiner then thanks. I guess because I am giving a new regime more than a season and a half I am a sunshiner. ok. LOL at using a poll on this site as an example of what the FO does wrong. Keep up that good pointed analysis.
You said it yourself, Parcells gave us the best YEAR a Jets coach has produced. He engineered that turnaround because he knew he would only be here a couple of years. That's what he does wherever he goes. He never thinks long-term, and apparently, neither do you.
About 80% of the posters thought that the DL is the biggest problem on the team right now. I think that's a pretty reliable indicator of what unit needs the most attention. Personally, I think the CS has been a huge problem this season, but I defer to the numbers of posters in the poll. If you dont think it all starts up front on both sides of the LOS, we'll never see eye to eye. Go drink your koolaide and watch the Jets get mashed on the LOS, because "the plan" has not made them competitive this season.
Okay, so you are comfortable with another rookie GM when you have highlighted numerous "poor" decisions the FO made on the first page of this thread. Seems a bit inconsistent, no? It is also funny that you are a proponent of Bill Cowher with your "show me results every year attitude." In four out of his fourteen years at the helm of the Steelers he had a .500 or below record. In 1998-1999 collectively he was 13-19. And, only twice in his career did he win more than one playoff game. In other words, the Steelers stuck with him through some pretty lean years. (In fact, the Steelers have only had 4 coaches in their entire history.) My point is that the organization needs some consistency. While I am not a proponent of consistency for consistency's sake, I don't think one average off-season and one sub-par season means regime change, especially after a trip to the playoffs last season. Look the season sucks, but if the FO mad all the wrong moves and the CS is terrible, wouldn't the team be getting blown out each week. Or, at the very least, not really be in many of the games?
I am going to go post in every single forum and spew negative crap without any logical solution as to whats wrong. I am going to do this so I can call myself a realist............thanks. Also I am going to go through everyones post not read them and make ignorant comments because that is how I now roll.
That is the only way to win in the NFL. You have no control over next year or the year after that with free agency and injuries being what they are. Want more proof? Just look at what our rookies have done here this year? (I'm talking about the FO, not the players)
The Jets are 3-5 or 4-4 after 8 games if the offensive and defensive lines were just average. Benching Chad was about seeing what the future holds, given that he was incapable of winning with the current talent in the trenches. He's probably finished but he was definitely cooked given the Jets current talent.
Tsk tsk, resorting to personal attacks. Is that a symptom of drinking too much koolaide? 91-38 in the fourth quarter. Care to explain that?
Tsk tsk. I gave my analysis of the team, a little bit about the FO and CS and you wanted cliff notes. I can explain the 4th quater very very easy. Edit: I stand by my comment. You are just trying to be a cock and goad me into something that should have never came to this. I gave a detailed analysis pointing out the good and bad and you are for some reason acting like a little kid. I have no reason why either. I was calling you bitter playfully, I guess you really take that to heart oh well. I added smilies to intimate that I was messing with you....................... I also changed the wording on my comment to Bradway since it so offended you. Jim Jones where are you? Further Edit: If that is a personal attack you really do not know me well.
I wouldn't go that far... It's just that a 1-8 season has brought out a number of people that just want to criticize the same things over and over again without offering any viable alternative. It is typically, "get a NT or go back to 4-3" or "get some hogs for the trenches" or "Kendall would have been the Jets' Chuck Norris." I don't disagree that the lines are extremely important, but they must be built in the context of the larger plan for the organization. Just take a step back and realize that in the 20 games of the new regime there are 2 new cornerstone's for the line, new promising players at QB, MLB, CB, two swiss-army players in Smith and Leon, at least one project O-lineman a few people are excited about, the emergence of Jerricho Cotchery and a Bryan Thomas that actually has some value. Every decision hasn't been gold in the front office or the coach's box, but there has been some real progress. Yes, the FO and CS are rookies, but it is not like the Jets organization plucked them off a messageboard and handed them the keys to the kingdom. It is certainly well within anyone's right to think Mangini and Tannenbaum are clueless, but rationale thought would dictate otherwise.
