I just cant understand why a move would have not been made after the Giants game. The coach is in NO danger of loosing his job point blank period. Its more likely he would take the exit ala Al Groul then be fired. With this in mind they picked up Clemens Im sure to be the eventual starter; I dont know if its contratual issues that keep pennington in his current starting position or if its as someone says to keep the team from being disgruntled cause they all back Pennington? The season is still not lost 2-5 has been visited before (I realize we're 1-5) But a win this week goes along way toward being 4-5 by the break. I have had so many rough starts to a season that this is normal for me right now, Not expected but normal. I dont hate Chad Pennington but I lack confidence in his ability to win any longer. I think the worst thing that can happen is if CP has a good game and thus earns another shot at leading the team. His Chapter is written and will not end Happily ever after. Im trying my best to be as inteligable as possible but my anger gets in the way. The Coaching Staff has made a lot of bad decisions and the Offensive play calling is high schoolish. As fans we watch the game and know what plays should be callled at what time but they arent being called , they run and run and run , then play action , then nothing . We had them where we want every team we've played . Open for the Play action . I dont understand why they are playing this badly?
Mangini is in a bad position right now. If he benches Chad now and the team continues to lose then he loses the respect of the vets and maybe even the young guys. If he sticks with Chad and the team continues to lose then the players start doubting the system they're in(if they're not already). Case in point, Baker speaking out about the 4th and 1 play call. Leaky ship. If Mangini sticks with Chad all the way and the team has a losing campaign he gets vilified by the fans and media, and I believe he puts his job in jeopardy. If he makes the switch to Clemens late and the team starts winning, he's portrayed as a fool for waiting so long to make the switch. If the team continues to lose after Clemens comes in then he still has the problem he had in the first place...losing. The only way it seems Mangini comes out on top as far as this season is concerned (in the eyes of the typical fan anyway) is if he puts Clemens in now and the team starts winning games. While most of us here are probably more concerned with the long term implications of if and when he makes the change, the one thing I believe to be a certainty is that he has to make it. Whether or not Chad puts together a couple good games or not, or if the team wins 2 out of the next 3 or not, he has to find out if Clemens has the goods this year. There are more then a couple glaring problems with this team and if one of them can be crossed off the list before the offseason then Mangini needs to make every possible attempt to do just that.
What can't you understand about a HC who is in complete control of the team has a major rebuild in front of him wanting to bring along his drafted QB the way he wants to? This isn't about Chad, lossing the team or any other nonesense. This is about bringing along a young QB the way he wants to.
You say that like you know for a fact! Commonsense is the issue at hand! The QB is stinking up the joint and there is no other corresponding reason to assign blame to. The defense has been a leaky sieve for years now. The O-line has been the bright spot for several years. (Still inst too shabby right now-had its ups and down). There is no conventional wisdom to what we are seeing right now!
The OL has sucked and I mean sucked since 05 before Mangini took overm, they have started to play better since the Baltimore game as has the D. The D was good 1 year, 04 and many of those players were gone or had forced the move before Mangini came here. There was no viable QB behind Chad when Mangini took over, none and Chad was a big question mark. Chad has been terrible much as he has been through TC and preseason. Commonsense dictates that Chad is playing because they don't want to rush Clemens.
What are you talking about, the Oline sucks. Especially in the run game, it was ranked in the bottom of the league last year and got worse when Kendall was traded. They are good in pass blocking but that has to do mostly with Brick and Mangold. The Oline has been playing a little better, but it's not like they could have gotten worse. I agree completely. The depth on the Oline has been bad for 7 years now, and 3/5s of the line is below average. Clarke and Clement are just bad, and Moore is only good on an above average Oline. I agree with you on Clemens, they are bringing him along as they see fit. I understand not rushing him along, even at the cost of the season, if he develops into an above average player for the next ten years (which I might add I think he will, but that is just my opinion). But by the same token, if Chad really blows it against a struggling Cincy team, they might have a tough time justifying not bringing in Clemens.
This is a very good point concerning Mangini. And from your post, we can actually clarify it even further with the following 4 scenarios: If Chad remains the QB and we: 1) Win most of our games, it's still seen as delaying the inevitable, keeping the situation hanging and it doesn't bring Clemens along. Mangini loses. 2) Lose most of our games, Mangini is a turd for not replacing Chad earlier. If Clemens takes over at QB and we: 1) Win most of our games, Mangini looks like he knows what he's doing and we go into '08 with good possibilities. 2) Lose most of our games, Mangini looks like an idiot for making the call. Not only that, he didn't stand by his man, so he's a disloyal bastard besides. Based on the above possibilities, it seems Mangini only has a 25% chance of coming out smelling like a rose. The other three scenarios have him smelling like a turd.
I disagree. Dont want to rush Clemens? From what we saw in the Baltimore game(wish we had more to look at ) The kid can make all the throws and should be given a chance to start how else are you going to gauge his chances or abilities. Since neither of us are coaches in the NFL I guesse its all conjecture. Are we vieing for anything right now; are we in the mix for anything except the underacheivers of the year . No! To say we will wait till we are out of it or till next year is retarded by anyones standard.
Not really, to put a good QB prospect behind a crappy/underdeveloped Oline and you end up with another David Carr or Joey Harrington.
Id agree if Chad had the crap knocked out of him in every game ; but thats not whats been happeneing week in week out! You are correct that the pass blocking is good. But the addition of a real passer will open things up. Its been discussed to the upteenth level that the lack of any down feild passing allows for a defense to stack the line and make it real hard for any run blocking to be effective. PLus its so predictable that I dont even think we would have any sucsess even if Adrian Peterson was the running back!
While I agree our depth isn't great, the defense looked it's best on Sunday when the line was Ellis, Robertson, Coleman, Thomas. Coleman is a big man. He has very little body fat and actually is a very good fit for a 4-3 NT, certainly better than Ferguson was.
In the 4-3, we only lack depth. How are Thomas and Ellis not starters at DE? How are Barton and Hobson, prototype 4-3 OLB's, not sufficient? I'll say again Coleman is a good fit at NT in the 4-3. All we need is depth, and 4 1st round picks in the front 7 will be playing in their true positions. Harris could be a casualty, but only as a starter. He instantly becomes the 4th LB on the depth chart, and could learn the system and backup evey LB position.
The OL might not be the best but in no way shape or form has the QB been running for his life. The failure of the offense can be placed in 2 areas. 1.) Chad- He has time to make the throws. He simply can not 2.) Play calling- Is this because of #1? most likely but how can we be sure. For the first 3 quarters of the Baltimore game it looked like the same predictable crap. Again was that because of a essentially a rookie QB under center. I have no idea all I know is that the play calling is not working this year. The lack of offense right now comes down to who is under center. This line is adequate right now. I am not saying they are good because it is obvious they are not. They might be average to slightly below. One thing for sure is they are way better than at the start of the season. This is not the hogs or some other elite line. They simply can not move 8-9-10 players out of the box to make room for TJ or Leon. Get a QB that can back off the safeties and/or an LB or two and I guarantee you the run game gets better by default. The other teams are not worried about dropping back extra guys in coverage. For F-sake look how open Cotchery is half the time. They are willing to give up a play or two to him because they are not too worried about getting beat like that on a consistent basis. D- Coordiators do not care about 2-3 30-40 yard passes that they might give up. I really think they can give a crap about the Jets getting to the redzone at present. Hey they know 1 of 2 plays are coming............ Jump ball/fade to the right or to the left. Anyway my .02 about the Offense.
Just so we're clear, I never suggested Ellis was a poor fit in the 4-3. Same goes for Barton. Quite the opposite. Thomas, however, never showed me enough when we ran the 4-3 for 4 years of his time here. Hobson I'm not sold on as a starting NFL LB period. The Coleman thought is interesting, but he's unproven in that spot. I wouldn't be opposed to seeing what he has at the 4-3 DT spot before wasting a high draft pick on the position if the switch were made.
I agree, my friend. The QB is not helping the situation in the least. But last year when Pennington was playing a lot better, the Oline STILL couldn't open run gaps. The right side of the line is just plan bad. And with Kendall gone the run game has just gotten worse. All I am saying is that the problems running the ball has as much to with the Oline play as it does the Pennington. Honestly, you could have Brady or Marino back there and it would help the run game a little but not all that much. Because the talent at 3/5s of the Oline isn't that good. So I doubt sticking Clemens back there is going to help things to a significant degree (at least in the run game, passing definitely). And I would hate to hurt his development. I hate to say this, but I see what winstonbiggs is saying and what the CS might be doing. Whatever happens this season happens with Pennington. Fix the Oline during the offseason, so Clemens has a good run game and even better protection to learn behind. But by the same token, if Pennington plays like shit in Cincy, not sure if they hold off putting Clemens in.
I disagree on the point of the run blocking. I think it is more to do with Pennington than anything else. Now I fully realize that a good line despite Chad should be able to win the LOS even if the other team knows a run is coming. I agree the line is not there yet, not even close. However, the run game will be substantially better with a QB that can back a safety or LB out of the box. I guess you are saying that the run game will never be elite with this line. I agree. However with a different QB it would at least be passable. I think we agree a little bit but not in totality.............lol tough to get a a complete point across on the internet sometimes.
lol...It's probably how I'm explaining it. I agree for the most part, and especially the highlighted sentence. No, what I am saying is that Chad is a problem and is not helping the situation AT ALL. I have seen enough of him, I am ready for him to ride the pine or be traded. But if you take Chad out of the equation and put another QB in there I think the run game is still bad. As was evidenced last year, Pennington was playing better and the Oline still sucked in the run game and that was WITH Kendall. So if that is the case, and the Line still isn't that good, why let Clemens go behind it? Let Pennington ride out the crap. Then you draft/sign a RT and an OG that came actually open some holes. So that immediately makes TJ and Washington better. I would just rather deal with Chad and a crappy year, than possibly set Clemens' development back because of a poor Oline (which is what happened to Carr and Harrington). But we agree on one thing, Chad and the Line are really what's responible for the crappy Offensive play this year. Both need to be addressed.
David Carr and Joey Harrington sat a full year???? I think Clemens and those two are in totally different situations, mainly the pass protection of this line isn't close to as bad as those QB's had. Kellen should definitely play and soon.
