Thank you MiamiPuck. There truly is real hope on the horizon. This team is taking it's lumps right now but like you said we're not THAT far away. Let's not forget how young the CS is too - I'm sure they're learning a lot this season. It's a lot easier to overlook your own short comings when you're having success. Sometimes it takes failure to really look at yourself and say "what do I need to do to improve?" I completely agree with your list of upgrades, but will also go so far as to say the O-line could be really solid with just a big mauler at RT. Clarke has played a lot better, and we may have even an upgrade in Bender if he can get up to speed in pass blocking.
Nice reply. However I think moving to a pure 4-3 puts this defense in just as bad a position. Think about it. The pressure from the 4-3 comes from the ends. Who would get the pressure in this D? Ellis? Maybe. K. Coleman has only played the 3-4 in his career and he is doing a good job so far. He is proving to be a very smart FA pickup so far. Who would play the other DT in the 4-3? Pouha- What has he done to engender any trust that he can make plays in the NFL. CJ Mosely- A part from the one good game in the preseason he is another what has he done to engender trust guy. So in a 4-3 would have just as many holes up front as we do now in the 3-4, maybe more. The Jets would be missing a DE and a DT to run a pure version of it. Than the LB's. Sure Vilma would immediately be better, no doubt. What about the other LB's. Hobson? Yuck he is too slow. B. Thomas? I suppose but he might be moved back to DE where he is decidedly mediocre. Harris- He is going to be a 3-4 ILB stud. Remember it took Bruschi several years and a competent front 3 to become the player he was. Now I am not saying Harris will ever be that good, however the talent is there. ILB is not an easy position to learn for anyone, especially a rookie. Anyway he is going to be nullified in a 4-3. Barton- I suppose he will be fine in a 4-3. He is okay in the 3-4. At this point, I think Barton is a Jag, great for depth. Right now in a 3-4 he is just holding a spot, till Harris can become an every down player. He is an aging vet every team needs but should not be a starter in any scheme. IMO. Than the secondary. Rhodes can probably do fine in any system but he has flourished in the 3-4. He is freed up to pass rush etc. in the 3-4. Coleman/Smith- I do not think you would see a staggering difference. CB's- Revis is going to be a stud man cover CB. The 3-4 is a great fit for him. Dyson/Barrett- These guys again are ok. Dyson more so than Barrett. They will be perfect compliments to Revis, especially when the FO gets a good front 3. I guess other than make Robertson and Vilma better you are making more players worse in a 3-4 than the other way around. Players better in a 4-3 are Vilma and Robertson. Players suited more for a 3-4 are B. Thomas, K. Coleman, Revis, Rhodes, Harris. For all the rest of the players the move would be negligible. Also in a pure 4-3 the Jets would have 2 holes in the front line as opposed to the 1 glaring one they have now in the 3-4. I think the fact the CS hybrids it enough, masks the pitfalls of using a pure 3-4/4-3. Especially, with the lack of personnel the Jets have at present to run a pure version of either.
Excellent post, and a very good point on Mangini. He was a bit of a riverboat gambler last year and this year no. I know he got burned a few times but it never bothered Parcells, and it never discourages Belichick. For some reason, he is more timid this year. I really am getting sick of the no huddle. I think we are a team that must get positive yardage on almost every play because of Chad's limitations, and with the no huddle there are invariably screwups. The idea of keeping a team on the field does not appeal to me as much as the idea of putting 4 wideouts in there half the time. That would create real matchup problems, if we had a QB who could throw. Dan Henning used it very well when Vinnie was here.
I know it wasn't the point of your post, but Ngata is not Baltimore's Nose Tackle and I feel like people should recognize that. He may eventually and he seems to be a legit player but we still would not have a nose tackle
I am well aware he is not Baltimore's NT. I am sure you are aware that when he came out he was about the only player that was considered "ready" to be a true NT in an NFL 3-4 in the last 2 drafts. That is why I mentioned him and the draft. Otherwise there have been absolutely no true NT's available at all.
I'm not reading all that!!!!! JUST FIRE MANGINI!!!!! sorry dude... I just had to do it :breakdance: Great post BTW!!! I'm inspired!!!!
It's a shame that for every concise, well thought out post like this one there are a dozen threads filled to the brim with shit. I know I could help contribute this but I rarely have the energy and tend to feel like it's a lost cause. Thanks for a refreshing read.
I hated the idea of quoting the whole post. I agree that it's a good thing that the CS has been employing some 4-3 sets. We also no longer have the personnel to effectively run the 4-3. My point was that we'd have an easier team filling those holes if we ran a 4-3 than we're going to have. Frank Okam is perhaps the best NT fit in the upcoming draft, and he may have to move to DE in our 3-4 if we were to draft him. The same goes for guys who can play DE and OLB in the 3-4 system. They're much harder to find than guys to play the same positions in the 4-3. Sticking with the 3-4, we still need to find a true NT and OLB, and I'm not sure Ellis is the best fit for the current system. Vilma is more than serviceable, although many people on this board would argue otherwise. In the 4-3, you fill holes at DT, DE, and OLB. You're in an essentially identical situation, but with an easier time finding personnel. Rhodes' emergence IMO has more to do with his increased comfort playing SS than with the switch to the 3-4. As I mentioned in an earlier post, I like having Smith and Rhodes start because both players have been forced to learn the safety position opposite to their college ones. They're more versatile as a result, which makes Kerry hard to account for. With Smith, they alternate between run stop/TE coverage and deep assist. I agree Coleman and Harris would be much worse off in the 4-3, even though both are enigmas in that system at this point. Drafting Harris also makes it very difficult to make the switch back. At this point, I sincerely hope that management is able to find players to fit the system and will demonstrate a willingness to cut ties with players who don't fit. I just haven't seen it yet, and I'm not sure next year's draft gives me much hope.
Coleman, Revis, and Rhodes can play in any system, the DL/LB ratio won't effect them as much. Rhodes' ability to blitz makes him able to play in a 3-4 effectively, but it doesn't make him more suited for it than for a 4-3. Revis is a cornerback, he plays cornerback.
well said miami. this has been one of the few highlights of this season. way to remind us of what's ahead cuz the present sux!!!!
Miami, a couple points, good thread overall though.... In a 4-3, Ellis and Thomas would be the ends.... Thomas was drafted, if I recall correctly, to play DE in the 4-3.... He never showed much in the system, but he really never got the chance.... I agree, in order to be very good, we'd need to draft or sign a good edge rusher, but that is much easier to obtain than a dominant NT, which is what we'd need in the 3-4 to be effective... At DT, I see Robertson obviously as the 3T, and I think at that spot he'd be nothing if not dominant..... He was developing into one of the top DTs in football at that position in 2005, and then we screwed the pooch switching to the 3-4.... I'd assume a rotation at the other DT spot, with Mosely and Pouha rotating... Neither has shown too much, but they have both also been forced to play as a NT in the 3-4.... I think Pouha would be what Ferguson was in our 4-3 before, with Mosely being a nice change of pace, high motor guy to bring in during a rotation and on passing downs.... I agree it wouldn't make our defense outstanding.. But we'd be able to muster as much pressure as we do now without having to blitz as much, because Ellis would at least be okay as an edge rusher, and Robertson would excel at pushing the pocket... Add to that the fact that we could leave Vilma back in coverage all the time, and also keep him free to make plays vs the run, and I think a switch to the 4-3 would put us in the middle of the pack on defense, instead of the bottom like we are now.... We'd still be a few pieces away from being a good defense, but it'd certainly be a big step in the right direction
Thanks I did not realize. Revis was drafted as a man to man cover CB for the 3-4. There is a difference and not all CB's are suited for it, as not all CB's are suited for zone coverage. So no, not all Cornerbacks are equal. You should know that. Coleman is way more suited for the 3-4. I was not talking about Eric, I was talking Kenyon. The safety Eric, is just a JAG right now so who really cares what system we play when it concerns him. Rhodes is an exceptional talent, however his skill set is perfect for the 3-4 and I happen to think he is a better player in it. Is that fact? no just my opinion.
Good points, thanks. Concerning Thomas, he is more of a tweener type that excels as a OLB in a 3-4. I think, again MO, he is not suitable as a 4-3 De and equally out of place as a OLB in a 4-3. In a 4-3 he is just a fish out of water. When he got a chance he was stout against the run but was just not that good as a pass rusher. Of course that was comparing him to John Abraham but he was never healthy. Pouha and Mosely worry me. They really have not shown much. Pouha is a 27 y/o player that has not really got on the field. Chances are he never will. Mosely is/was good in spurts but certainly not long enough to raise more than an eyebrow. If the team can not get that elite guy then I think they have to do a better job of building a rotation. Right now other than Ellis and K. Coleman there is nobody. That might take a little pressure off. In reality the defense is in a lot of 4-3 looks. At least they were this Sunday. I saw it a bunch of times. I was busy yacking with some buddies and not watching too close. This defense right now is a lot like Thomas. It is a tweener. It has some players suitable for the 4-3 and some that are suitable for the 3-4 and a bunch of Jags that it should not matter. If the FO feels they can draft the right players and eventually make the 3-4 work than I am cool with that. You can see some of the talent and big play ability they are just a few players shy.
great read miami, very insightful and well thought, i would like to also mention some positives on this team that i have noticed: 1. the development of brad smith-he is looking more and more like a wr then a qb every week, his hands seem to be getting better, as does his route running, in addition i feel he is one of the best special teamers on the team 2. wr play- for the way chad has been playing, the recievers are playing great, coles and cotch consistenly catch balls that they have no business catching, baker is solid when he gets oppertunity, in addition the downfield blocking from coles/cotch has been outstanding, i specifically remember several times i saw 87 busting his ass for a block, good inspired play 3. special teams-got off to a rocky start and nugent has been inconsisten, that said our kr and kr coverage has been stellar, we have also been close to blocking a few fg's and punts 4.pass protection- wow has this unit gelled the past few weeks, dbrick has been locking it down and mangold has down a good job of directing assignments for blitz coverage, a very important skill for a center, brandon moore and adrian clarke are also playing a lot better 5.our rookies- revis still has much to learn, but he is a sure tackler in the mold of a young antoine winfield, he has good body control and doesnt get beat deep, david harris, for the limted time he has seen, has been makin plays, plus whenever i see him hit someone, the go backward, this guy is for real, its too bad chansi stuckey got hurt bc i think he can be a solid addition some of these may be a lil bit of a strecth but im trying to be positive so dont crucify me, again great post miami, go jets
Only stipulation was to put together a well thought out post. Thank you, you have done so. No crucification for you. Only thing I can say is it is difficult to gauge WR play. The QB throws a lot of jump balls. Maybe the FO should have kept that basketball player from Virginia.
Chad is struggling and it may be time to make a move but to say we'd be 3-3 or 4-2 if we had a better QB might be stretching it. Chad played well against NE and Mia and has struggled the last few weeks BUT the D is allowing opponents to control the ball and get leads(or in the case of the giant game blow a big lead). The last 2 weeks Coles has dropped huge passes that could have been key to victory and that last sequence on Sunday was not Chad's fault, that was awful playcalling. I would make a move w/in the next week or 2 but we wouldn't be 3-3 or 4-2 w/ a different QB, we might be w/ a better D though. We don't have the pieces for a good 3-4, yes I know we are showing some 4-3 looks but it's not the same, this is a 3-4 D and our best players are suited for the 4-3. We need a spaceeater in the middle and we don't have that. We changed our D which brought out the strengths in Hobson and Thomas and has made players like Robertson, Ellis and Vilma ineffective. We didn't turn it over until the 4th qtr of the Buf game. We only turned it over once last week and it was like a Graham punt so it didn't kill us. The D just can't stop anybody. They did do a better job in the 2nd half Sunday and the 2nd half against Bal but those are 2 weak O's that never should have been dominating us early. Good, rational post overall though.
