Lets keep this thread for intelligent talk about what ails the Jets and what is looking good. Feel free to post your opinions, all I ask is to please put some thought into them. Thanks, with that said: Ails: The Jets are about 5 solid players short of being very good to an elite team. How can I say it after they are 1-5? Simple here are the 5 players: 1.) QB- Obvious observation. If the jets had a real QB, one that can make all the required throws and back a defense off the line there is a good shot at this team being 4-2 or at least 3-3. Pennington is shot, but I guess we can discuss that in the other 150 "Chad sucks threads". Is KC the real deal a true #1 QB like in the 4th quarter against Balt. or the one in the first 3 quarters? Depends is the best answer. It depends on whether the CS dumbed the playbook down for him or the game just slowed down enough as it progressed. Either way I hope KC is more of the 4th quarter version than the first 3. At the very least he has an arm strong enough to make any throw required of an NFL QB with accuracy. 2.) NT- Look this is again obvious. The heart of a 3-4 defense is here. In the last 2 drafts there has been exactly one available and he had some questions coming out. If the Jets drafted Ngata they would not have an LT right now. I guess it is a trade off. Brick has been getting stronger and stronger so this decision is not bad. In FA there was not 1 true NT available last year. So I am not sure if it was even possible to upgrade in 2 years. Robertson sure looked better yesterday but I can not be sure if that was because the Eagles OL sucks or he just had a good game. Either way he needs more games like that because he has been largely invisible so far this year. 3.) Pass Rushing OLB- Hobson just does not cut it as a OLB. He is not a fast nor a dynamic player. He is a JAG. A player that is great for depth but a starter in a good 3-4 NFW. Thomas is tailer made for this spot. He has not been very good or near as good as last year to be sure. However a pass rushing OLB in a 3-4 is typically a tweener DE that is fast and tough. Thomas is fast and tough as evidenced of him being good against the run. If the FO can get a dynamic pass rushing guy opposite of Thomas I think it will make him all the better. The sack production of a 3-4 largely comes from these 2 guys, as it stands right now is non-existent. 4-5) OG and RT- Out of the 5, these are probably the easiest positions to fill. Unlike the other 3, the Jets do not need elite talent here to improve. If the FO can get 2 competent guys to replace either Clement, Moore or Clarke than this line will be solid and at worst, in the top 3rd of the NFL. I really think in the near future Brick and Mangold will make a Pro-bowl. That is a solid 2/5ths of a line that is either excellent or elite. We all know Bricks shortcomings (run blocking) however he has been improving on a weekly basis and largely making the best De's in the league ineffective. For all intents and purposes the pass blocking has been good enough, for any QB other than Chad, to flourish in the passing game. Sure there are other needs, such as depth and luxury positions like TE or FS or another CB. However, if you fix the above, this team will be fine. I think it possible that 2 of the answers are currently on the roster. (KC and possibly Bender). Other Ails: Mangini- If you think this is going to be a fire him thread please get lost. My one problem with him this year is his lack of aggression. Last year every decision came down to what was the most aggressive, had the greatest return vs. risk. I just wish he went for it this year in situations that he did last year. I am cool with going for it on 4th and 1 etc. Take a shot, playing like a pussy (like Herm) is no way to play Football. Also it is time to call it quits on the Pennington era. However, that was a very difficult decision based on Chad's standing in the locker room. I think the goodwill Chad had, is largely gone. Schottenheimer- See above. I believe most of the problem here stems from the lack of arm at the QB position and decreases his play calling abilities. I think it is of paramount importance to get 8-9 guys out of the box. Again the only way to do this is get rid of the QB. Still he is about as aggressive as a jar of Valium. Sutton- Again see above. I do not know if he needs replacing. The D certainly adjusted at halftime of the Eagles game. However, in general many of the big problems of this 3-4 D is lack of talent at key positions not scheme problems. Also they use a hybrid enough to quell the we need to switch back to the 4-3 nonsense. The D has also made a few big plays when it is needed, especially in the last 3 weeks. I think much of the D problems can be masked/fixed with a better offense, one that does not turn the ball over so much and or can at least stem the tide of 3 and outs. Special Teams- Graham and Nugent have been blah so far in FG's and punt. I think they can and will improve but so far they are like the rest of the team, decidedly mediocre. The kickoff coverage team has gotten better but man did they suck for the first 1/4 of the season. Also the punt returning is also mediocre. However, with Leon Washington we should take the good with the bad. The good: The Jets have been in every game with the exception of 1. That nameless team has blown out every team they have played so they are not a good gauge with exception of the fact that the Jets are no different from the 5 other teams that played the Pats. Young talent on the team. You could list the following as exciting young players that are going to be the foundation of the Jets for quite some time: Ferguson, Mangold, Revis, Washington, Cotchery, Harris, Rhodes, Kellen Clemens, Vilma, Brad Smith, Eric Smith (skip the missed tackle Sunday please). The team has drafted very well in the last 2 years and is not far off despite what the chicken littles say. Draft wise they have made one glaring error in the last 2 drafts. Schlegel. If that is the worst of it, we can all live with that. Pass protection and in general the OL- despite the fact that there are 8-9-10 in the box the OL has largely gotten about 50 times better in pass protection. Chad at best has all day to throw a duck and at worst has plenty enough time to checkdown to someone 3 yards off the line. One thing for sure is he is not running for his life and the pass protection has gotten better as the season has progressed. Despite the fact people are still whinging about letting Pete Kendall walk, in a great trade, it has not hurt this team. The OL has continually gotten better as a whole. However, that does not mean it is not still 2-3 players away. Defense making plays- The defense started off the season horribly. In the last 3 weeks the Defense has made at least 5-6 stops in key spots. The D is starting to get better in the respect that they are providing big plays that at least allow the anemic Offense a chance at redemption. Despite the huge amount of interceptions lately this team does not fumble and has committed relatively few penalties. I would also like to compliment the Special teams when it comes to Kickoff returns. Leon Washington is a dynamo in that role. He looks every bit as good as Justin Miller if not better. That is it for now.
Good analysis. We're just not as good as many of us were expecting. I think if Mangini had this year LAST year, it'd be more expected. This is still year 2 of rebuilding. With that said, I think it's time to make the change at Quarterback. I think we just need to see whether or not Clemens can be, or even will be, the franchise QB of the future for this team.
you hit the nail right on the head! Miami you must have been inspiring to write, since you were so down on all the blatant retardation that has been going on in this forum the last few Sundays...only problem, your title just begs for the typical Sunday posters to enter and crucify your post...I think it was great
Finally, a little perspective. Great analysis on the teams situation. Hopefully we can address 3 or4 of the needs this offseason, add some depth, and return to the playoffs next year. By the way, I totally agree with you that Mangini seems less intent on being aggressive. I wonder why that is? Last year he was going for it on 4th and 1 from the 50. That instills confidence in the team and makes everyone have more fun. I think the team, at this point, is pressing a bit.
[/quote] Mangini- If you think this is going to be a fire him thread please get lost. My one problem with him this year is his lack of aggression. Last year every decision came down to what was the most aggressive, had the greatest return vs. risk. I just wish he went for it this year in situations that he did last year. I am cool with going for it on 4th and 1 etc. Take a shot, playing like a pussy (like Herm) is no way to play Football. Also it is time to call it quits on the Pennington era. However, that was a very difficult decision based on Chad's standing in the locker room. I think the goodwill Chad had, is largely gone. [/QUOTE] The biggest issue I have with the CS right now is they have seem to gone away from fundamental football. We throw out of the shotgun, we run when we are under center and the two don't seem to complement each other. They are asking an awful lot out of the QB to line up in shotgun and throw the ball 30-40 times. This is going to be an issue when they go to Clemens. Say what you will, but you need to protect a "rookie QB". That means get back to having a FB and a TE more often and use the running game and play action. Dummy down the decision making and get the playmakers the ball. The Patriots are really the only team I can think of that is successful with this much shotgun. Even the Colts line up under center more, it is hard to use playactio when you are in shotgun as much as we are. Do not take this as a defense of Chad, because the same thing has to happen with Clemens. You can not just put in a basically "rookie" QB and have him line up in obvious passing formations and throw 30 times a game. I know this would help the screens, which we cannot run anymore and make the check down reads easier with back chipping on the way to his checkdown route. Kind of what the eagles do but with a better set of WR's and RB's (Leon and TJ better than BW and CB)
It seems the bunker has an elevator. Way to elevate the discussion Miami. I happen to like our team and think it has more potential right now than it has in years. We have a good and improving OL that is a RT and guard away from being an elite OL. We have a young QB on the roster who in 15 minutes of playing time showed more pure throwing skill than any Jets QB in 30 years. We have a very nice running back tandem, good WR and a decent TE who isn't utilized very well. On D our secondary is loaded with talent, the front 7 is probably 3 players away but we also have cap room to play with. As tough as the games have been I like this team future better than at any time since 98.
I agree. As difficult as this season has been, this is exactly what I expected last season. I really think the disintegration of Chad has more to do with it than anything so far. He was at least average last year, now he is worse than Rex Grossman. This team has more talent than last year IMO. You have to realize the bunker is all inclusive not exclusive. All you(not "you" in particular a general "you") need to do is take off the tinfoil hat and have a little sense of humor. BTW your challenge inspired me.
I like the fact that once we get Kellen in the mix of things, if he does turn out to be a halfway decent QB, we already have some good receivers to throw the ball to, which is prime when it comes to building a young QB's confidence. Coles, Cotchery should prove to be an immediate supplement to the development to Clemens, and a few years down the line, it could be Cotchery and Smith ( possibly Stuckey) Our defense has good players as well. Revis, Rhodes, Harris will be fixtures on this defense, and once we get a new NT, and an outside LB for the pass rush, ( I want a freak like Merriman) then the D should be set to go. Another CB is never out of the question, but I like Eric Smith at safety alongside Rhodes....the present may be dim, but the future looks bright
yes, I was there when he challenged you, it was the captain obvious in me, which was meant to be a smart ass comment.... nonetheless, again, Great Post :up:
Great post. I'd like to address #2 on your list of ails. The inability to pick up personnel to fit into the 3-4 is probably the biggest reason to move back to the 4-3. There are more teams now running a base 3-4 than players to fit the positions. I'm not sure we'll have any more luck this offseason picking up a NT, and we've stretched to fit people into roles they don't work in (see Hobson/Robertson). If we were to move back to the 4-3, we'd have fewer holes on defense, and the draft is set up to address them. If we have a top 5 pick, we'd be in position to draft Glenn Dorsey out of LSU. Harris would be a casualty of the move (although we're already trying to squeeze multiple square pegs into round holes), but other than that, it would at least make us competitive on defense again.
Actually thanks for the compliment buddy. :up: Speaking of smart asses, who did you adopt again? :smile:
I do agree this team is not as far off as a lot of fans try to put it. Two Oline men(if bender doesn't work out), a NT plus an OLB is all that stands between a competitive team and what we have right now(Also Kellen working out). I don't think that is too much to ask for in one off-season. But other then hoping that it was true that Miller was clearing looking the best in TC at corner (because with revis, they would be great speed and strenght at the corner spots for years), our team also needs one more thing...... we have no game breaker on offense. And other then wishing Kellen is the net Brady, the Jets really need a player like that on offense if it hopes to win a title.
I still maintain that the biggest reason why Kellen didn't see the field earlier is that the coaching staff was unprepared for the possibility that he may have to start. The playcalling in the Baltimore game showed that they didn't develop more than a handful of playcalls specific to Kellen's skill set. With Chad's injury history, that's a huge mistake. At this point, you have to hope that the CS is at least attempting to mix in more of the overall playbook for Kellen in practice with the first team. If he comes in with a gameplan developed for Chad, we're in trouble. That's not who he was at Oregon, where I felt he was the best QB prospect in (at least) the Pac 10.
We are playing alot of base 4/3 and I think we are going to see more of it as the weather cools off. We really don't have many guys who can even play a base 4/3 and up until this week the weather has been very hot and humid. We saw much more base 4/3 this week and I think we will see a lot more from now on. We simply don't have enough decent tackles or ends to have a good rotation of the base 4/3 so we do both.
I agree, particularly at DT. However, I feel that the 4-3 is much easier for us (and anyone) to draft towards. We'd need to pick up a DT like Dorsey and depth at both DT and DE to have success, but it would be a better fit for what we have than the 3-4.
