Vilma's been playing well? Like when he got completely blocked out of a play today? How many tackles behind the LOS has he had? Sacks? Crunching hits? C'mon now, he's not a good fit for our defense. I'm not sure why so many people feel its necessary to keep him when it's so very clear he doesn't fit into the scheme...especially when he has value on the trade market. Yes, it's true that mid season trades rarely happen, but it can be done.
Hey, hard to blame Vilma. We have a defense that has alot of speed in the back 7, w/ players who were made to attack and pursue. The front 4 is filled w/ guys built to play a one gap scheme and shoot the gaps.. So what does "Mangenius" have us playing? A 2 gap read and react scheme which completely negates any of our defense's strengths. This defense is a JOKE.
Mangini's defensive genius is definitely in question, I have yet to see one piece of evidence to back up that claim. I said it in another thread- Tomlin didn't force the Cover 2 down Pittsburgh's throats when he took over. It was asinine for Mangini to impose the 3-4 without having the proper personnel. Not a "genius" maneuver by any stretch. He's wasting the prime years of a lot of these players. The honeymoon (if it didn't end earlier), is over for Mangini. He's going to have to answer some tough questions.
Mangini would not last for three straight losing seasons. There is not a (*non-first-year-with-team) coach in the 88-year history of this league who ever turned around a team after a 3-13, 2-14, 1-15, 2-12, 1-13 type of season. All coaches who had 2006 Raiders type of seasons, never rebounded to find success with that same team. *There are, however, coaches who began their tenures with a new team, had a horrendous first season, and then turned the team into a success of some sort. See- Bill Parcells, 1983 Giants, 3-12-1 Jim Mora, 1999 Colts, 3-13 Chuck Noll, 1969 Steelers, 1-13 Jimmy Johnson, 1989 Cowboys, 1-15
He had a couple of crunching hits today. Once on LJ Smith across the middle and one on westbrook when he perfectly read a screen pass. He also had 2 great pass defended, one that couldve been picked by Rhodes or Coleman. Its not that he is not a good fit for this defense, this defense is not a good fit for this team simple as that. But to trade your most talented defender is stupid. Its hard for him to make plays in the backfield when our front 3 is so pathetically awful. If you watched last weeks game of Chicago and GB, they showed Brian Urlacher getting destroyed off the line by an offensive guard and not one of you would complain about him if he was on our team. The offensive guard shouldnt get a chance to block a LB if the defensive line is doing its job. Also, please explain why no one is saying trade Barton or Bryan Thomas. BT had an open shot on McNabb today and completely whiffed and I havent seen Barton make a single stop this year. Start blaming the right people because all this talk abot trading Vilma is outlandish.
I'm not being fascetious in saying that Mangini is toast if the Jets go 3-13 or less. I really believe that he winds up tagged with "lost the clubhouse, couldn't install his defense, was afraid to make necessary changes" and is shown the door. Never to resurface in the NFL unless Belichik forgives him and takes him back.
Because Barton and Thomas have no value. Plus, Thomas just signed a new deal which would hurt our Salary cap. My point is very simple. Mangini is unlikely to be fired after this season and Vilma is not a good fit for the 3-4. Vilma is our best player and holds the most value in a trade. If we are to continue with the 3-4 then Vilma needs to be moved.
If the Jets go 1-15, 2-14, or 3-13 I don't think Mangini would recover with the Jets. There have been several coaches who had good rookie seasons including winning playoff games and then they coached a second year, which turned out to be their final year as NFL head coaches. Bill Callahan, Bud Carson, Lou Rymkus, and Adam Walsh are examples. Then you have Clark Shaughnessy who went 6-5-1 as a rookie NFL head coach and then went 8-2-2, lost the NFL Championship Game, and was never again the head man of an NFL team. Then there's Mike Mularkey who went 9-7 with the Bills in 2004 and only lasted one more year. Mularkey in '04 with the Bills was basically in the same neighborhood as Mangini with the '06 Jets. Then there is Chan Gailey who went 18-14 in two years with Dallas and made it to the playoffs two times. He hasn't been an NFL head coach since.
The schedule does look very difficult the rest of the way, but you never know who might get injured. Maybe Kerry Collins will start when the Jets go to Tennessee. Maybe Tony Romo will be out of action on Thanksgiving. Well, anyway, I agree with Br4dw4y5ux that Mangini should be looking for a new job if this team goes 1-15, 2-14, or 3-13. He'd lose the team after a horrendous season such as that. They are headed in that direction right now. I realize the defense sucks, but even so, they will eventually get sick of seeing Pennington suck. Infighting is not too far away.
Our schedule is tough, but I can guarantee we take either the 2nd Buffalo game, or the 2nd Miami game.... We might get a fluke win in there somewhere, but I doubt it.... That being said Cincinatti and Kansas City, with their game today, officially traded places... Going into this season KC looked like a pushover, while Cincy would be tough. Now, I think we may have a shot next week, and KC is going to romp us in the finale.... And I believe, if we are something like 2-14, or 3-13 to end the season, and get whooped by Herm and KC in week 17 at home, that will be enough to push Woody over the edge to fire the current regime....
The thing is, I'm not even looking at the schedule...I dont need to. This team may not win another game. This defense would have trouble stopping division 3 high school offenses...and w/ Chad at QB, we arent out scoring anybody.
While I believe that's true, the offensive line is progressing steadily, and Thomas Jones can put up some numbers.... I believe we'll stumble onto a couple more wins, based on this, and maybe a few big plays from our STs and WRs.... The ONLY reason we won vs Miami, was the STs and running game.... I can see us taking one or two more the same way
nyjunc would disagree, but the Chiefs have a lot of talented players. To some degree I'm surprised they are 3-3, but I shouldn't be when I look at their personnel. The Chiefs are better than the Jets on the defensive line and at linebacker. They are also probably better in the secondary, including at safety. Although Rhodes is the best individual, the combination of Page and Pollard is probably better than Rhodes and Coleman. By the way, Anthony Schlegel whiffed on a potential tackle of Larry Johnson today.
It cracks me up whenever I see Schlegal in on that Cincy defense.... If there is one way to effectively sum up how terrible that defense is, it would be by simply saying that Schlegal sees significant action on the field with them
Bum Phillips was 5-9 his second season in Houston after going 10-4 his rookie season then took the Oilers to 2 AFC Championship Games in the late 70's. Dan Reeves also had success after going 10-6 his 1st year, 2-7 his second Denver then taking the team to 3 Super Bowls.
Yeah, I guess it's better to keep Vilma here, and continue with the 3-4 instead of trading him and getting players in here more suitable for the 3-4.
Yeah, you're probably right, we're probably not trading Vilma. But if this team wants to start competing we need to get rid of the love affair we have with players, and get guys in here for the systems we want to run. But thanks for your insight. :rofl:
