While I agree with you on the point that he's not in the top-5 of all-time great NY players, I disagree with you here. Jeter is an above average shortstop. He lacks range to one side, but has incredible range the opposite way. His baserunning ability is fantastic. He's an intelligent and fast baserunner. He doesn't get a lot of SBs because there's always a ton of power hitting behind him. There's no reason to take the bat out of guys' hands. His arm strength is one of the best at the position in the league. How can you even remotely believe otherwise? The guy can throw harder while spinning in mid-air (therefore having no leg power behind it) across his body, and still hit first base on a fly. Not only does he have a strong arm, but he is usually deadly accurate. He doesn't "hit for power" but he CAN. He's a hit machine. He will always have a high OBP (career .388, never had a full season under .370). He's never going to hit 40 HRs, 24 being his highest total ever. However, he's never had a full season under double digits. He's not a power hitter, but to deny that his hitting isn't a tool, and that he does have some power is just silly.
I wasn't comparing him to them. The original statement was made that Jeter is one of the top 5 athletes in NY history. I said he wasn't even in the top 5 in baseball and then mentioned that Ruth, Gehrig, DiMaggio, Mantle and Mays were all better. Then somebody said if he breaks Rose's hit record he will be better then Mays and Mantle. Then I said why he wouldn't be. That's all.
Well, you actually agree with me on fielding as you freely admit he doesn't move to one side very well. If he had a lot of speed on the bases then he would steal bases and that wouldn't take the bat out of anybody's hand. It's when you don't that the chance of being thrown out is the determining factor. His arm strength is above average but it is not great. It can't even begin to be compared to A-rod's but he does have a great spinning move going to his right. I agree with that. And why would you choose not to hit for power when you can? Granted he comes up second once a game. After that it can be anywhere. With Soriano and Cano batting 9th for so many years there are usually always the possibility of people being on base. Yet he only had 100 RBIs once in his career and barely got over 80 most other years. If he can hit with power I wish he would, especially in the playoffs where we need every run we can get.
Average Feilder? - He has a .975 Feilding Percentage! (FYi - Ripken, widely regarded as the greatest SS ever had a .979!) Average Runner? - He ranks 21st among active players in total stolen bases and has a %79 SBPct!!! http://mlb.mlb.com/stats/historical/individual_stats_player.jsp?c_id=mlb&playerID=116539 Average Arm Strength? - Jeter has 193 Errors in 1825 Career Games, or 1 per 9.46 Games. Ripken at SS? 225 Errors in 1565 or one per 6.95. I LOVE how people say "Jeter does more than his numbers say". His numbers say an awful fucking lot!
Please do tell me what the average is for SS in those statistics. (among current players) He has 264 SBs in 13 years or 20 a year, That doesn't show great speed. The fact his SPPct is 79% just means he doesn't try that often. He averages 15 errors a year. What is the average among active starting SSs? He does have 3 gold gloves but he has 10 other years where he didn't get one too.
Another thing he should get some recognition for is that he is deadly on relays. His arm has carried some weak arms in the outfield over the years.
I could not get the MLB Website's Career statistics to work for just the SS position. HOWEVER: http://mlb.mlb.com/stats/historical...=&venueID=&subScope=pos&teamPosCode=6&HS=true For All SS's with a hundred or more games played at the position this year: Jeter Ranked 9th out of 26 in fielding pct Jeter Ranked 6th out of 26 in total errors Jeter Ranked 6th out of 26 in Stolen Bases Jeter Ranked 3rd out of 26 in Stolen Base Percentage
ok..better then I thought. Odd how he could rank 9th in fielding and 6th in errors. Must mean he is getting less chances, or is it more? Less. When I look here it looks like he is 12 in errors. http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats...=2007&seasonType=2&split=82&sortColumn=errors 16th in fielding http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats...=2007&seasonType=2&split=82&sortColumn=errors 9th in SB http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats...=2007&seasonType=2&split=82&sortColumn=errors Funny how different sites have different stats.
Wow Don, you're actually morphing into a juncian arguement now. Seriously bro, name 5 other shortstops currently in the major leagues you'd rather have on your team. Any team, not even just the Yankees. As I said, I agree he is not top-5 all time on the Yankees or MLB in terms of players, but you're acting like the guy is no better than MacDonald up in Toronto.
No, it would have to be more, to dilute the effect of each individual error. Just like each individual strikeout is diluted for each subsequent base hit later on.
Arguments aside, this is wierd: ESPN has him at 18 total errors, but MLB has him at 15 Total Errors: http://mlb.mlb.com/stats/historical...1&timeFrame=1&timeSubFrame=2006&Submit=Submit Which is correct???
I probably can't think of one I would rather have. Besides junc would be on the other side of this argument anyway. I'm just showing the stats to say why he isn't a 5 tool player and why he isn't better then Mays or Mantle was which brought all of this about. I really like Jeter. I just won't put him on a thrown...hmm..throne even.
Ozzie Smith and Omar Vizquel were/are both better defensive shortstops than Ripken. Also, FP isn't that great a stat. Did you know Jeter is a below average shortstop in range for his career? His RF/game is 4.05 for his career, while the league average for shortstops in that time is 4.12. He's also 24th in GDPs. Where's that speed down the line to avoid getting doubled up? Errors are in no way a measure of arm strength. Jeter does have a good arm, but your argument you use to show it is ridiculously inaccurate.
Jeter is on pace to beat them in just about EVERY offensive category that matters. Jeter's fault that the batter's ahead of him get on first base? Balls thrown short or in the dirt are not usually errors???
Sure do. All century balloting for Shortstops: Cal Ripken, Jr. (669,033) Ernie Banks (598,168) Ozzie Smith (589,025) Honus Wagner* (526,740) Robin Yount (134,655) Luis Aparicio (129,328)
Do YOU Know Baseball? Derek Jeter Post Season - G 46 AB 181 R 33 H 67 2B 9 3B 1 HR 9 (Must be that Piss-Poor power he has!) :rofl2: RBI 20 TB 105 BB 19 SO 31 SB 4 CS 2 OBP .429 SLG .580 (Must be that Piss-Poor power he has!) :rofl2: AVG .370
