No it makes more sense that way, I just didn't realize we were thinking that way yet at 1-3. Some of these people I wouldn't want in a foxhole next to me, that's for sure.
Careful, I said the same thing on this thread and someone got a bit upset. Don't you see, Rob? We're 1-3; therefore we need to think about canning manboobs. TBTF
Obviously we are not going to fire Mangini for not starting a Clemens over Chad this season. Albeit, I believe that Clemens would get a few starts near the end of the season if we eliminated from contention. My question in watching the Jets is always "Is Chad not trying to throw deep because he doesn't have the confidence in his arm, or is schottenheimer not calling deep routes because he doesn't have confidence in Chad's arm?" I'm love Chad's accuracy, but I'm frustrated that we don't try more deep balls during the game. We invite the opposing secondary to jump our routes and cheat-up on the run because we don't stretch the field. I understand that Buffalo was playing "off" of our receivers this week, but other teams aren't lying back, and we don't do anything about it. I may be speaking out of frustration of a 1-3 start, but I'd like to see us eliminate some of dump-offs and the 3-yard out routes, and throw 3 plays per game at least 35 yards down the field (in the air). We may not connect on any of them, but the more we do it, the more success we will see. Plus it may help to open up the running game.
His point was the same I was trying to make. Granted, I want Clemens now, but if Chad is who the staff feels can somehow make a miracle happen, and sneak us into the playoffs, then he absolutely should be the starter right now. I have no faith that is the case, but I submit to the will of Mangenius. My point was, looking forward, as this thread's original premise was doing, if we have already lost 10 games, and Mangini is still refusing to give Clemens time under center, is he the guy we still want in charge of this team for the long haul? My answer is absolutely not. If we're mathematically out of the playoff hunt, and Mangini refuses to give Clemens a shot, to see what he's got, then he's showing he doesn't even have confidence in a pick he made, and a big one at that. If he's not going to feel any confidence in a pick like that, what would give me any confidence that the future holds any potential? As I've said many a time, I don't mind losing if we at least show progress. So far, we've shown nothing. If that continues over the course of the next 2 quarters of the season, and there is no "light at the end of the tunnel" then I want a new flashlight.
It's more than being mathematically out of the playoffs. Right now the Jets are playing for the future. Even if we could somehow get to the playoffs it would be another one and done game anyway. The Cs needs to come to the realization that we were not good last year and got lucky because of a weak schedule and let Clemens play to see where we stand going forward at the Qb position. Period. It seems to me that Mangini is scared to pull the trigger because the impatient fan base and Media will start to rip him for giving up on a season that is already lost.
I just don't get this whole mentality of being out of it. In two weeks about half the league will be 3-3, so that's where I'm hoping we can get. Win the next two and get back in the game. I don't care about next year, I just waited 8 months for this year, I'm 40 fucking years old. And again, we'd only learn so much about Clemens if he plays anyway. If he's good we don't need to waste a year figuring it out, he'll win when he gets in there like Chad did. In the meantime, try to win with who we have, whether it's Chad or Clemens. Considering there is absolutely no hint in reality of any QB change anywhere on the horizon, these 100 threads a day get real tiring. There are other more topical things to talk about, like why we can't stop the same 15 yard out from a novice QB for the whole game. This QB nonsense gets very old very fast and it's turning what is a good forum for Jet fans into a pile of shit.
i dont believe thats true. if clemens is definitely going to be the full time starter next year he needs to be playing now. chad is probably a cap casualty next year, and all qb's just dont come in and play at full potential off the bat. clemens needs to take his lumps now instead of us dropping games early next year and writing it off to his first starting woes. and i dont hate penny ive loved watching him play. but, its just boring as fuck to watch games now. having to depend on perfection in every facet of the game to come out with a win. its bullshit. furthermore, if clemens is going to be starting next year another issue is WR chemistry, learning when to cut routes early and certain spots clemens likes throwing to on busted plays. a whole plethora of factors come in there. people talk about penny giving us the best chance to win, but thing is the best chance to win is preparing our future starter now instead of watching him get beat up early next season.
Here is the difference between professional coaches and fans. Coaches' jobs depend on winning every week, they are not necessarily out to entertain you with an air show. We're supposed to "take our lumps" now, not even halfway through the season, so that we don't lose games early next year? People here were saying this last year, so that we wouldn't lose this year and we ended up in the playoffs. Good thing the coaches didn't listen to you guys. Next year never comes, I guarantee you that whoever is playing to start next year, the minute we give up a first down every idiot here will be packing it in and hoping for a draft pick for the year after that. Clemens is already in his second year of the same offense, which is a luxury many starting QBs in the NFL don't have, next year will be his third. If and when he comes in his job will be to win, just like Chad's is now, otherwise we'll be looking at Brad Smith or someone else. I don't want to hear about taking any lumps. Fuck that.
ok i didnt say this cuz i knew itd break out into a debate but I believe Clemens gives us a better chance to win right now. yes i do full heartedly. im done with the dink and dunk, literally done. and im not asking for the greatest show on turf. im asking for something besides cp playing pitch and catch on the field like theres no defenders there to clean our wr's clocks. you dont win like this, not with our d, not against and reasonable d (hell we couldnt do it against the bills) he stifles our running game he limits our passing game, have fun. Its not official but I think we have a Bledsoe/Romo problem. Hopefully Mangini wont recquire Parcells experience to say that.
I'm not disagreeing with you. As I've stated, I am okay with Chad still starting for the time being, if the CS is convinced he can pull off a miracle and get this team back in it. I'm not so convinced we can pull off the miracle regardless of Chad though, so the point may well be moot. The premise of the thread was 3 months from now though, not today. If the thread said "Should Mangini be fired if Chad starts Sunday against the Giants?" I would have immediately flamed the OP, and voted HELL NO. However, the whole point of the thread was that if we're in the basement in late November-early December, and Clemens is still not seeing any action, should Mangini lose his job? And my answer is a confident YES. If we get to the point where the playoffs are no longer a possiblity, then there is absolutely no reason the supposed future of the QB position should not get the chance to gell with the team. Let's be honest. Unless Chad leads us to the Promised Land, or at least the AFC Championship game this year, he's not going to don Green and White ever again. If we're out of the playoffs, mathematically, why wouldn't we want to catch a glimpse of the future? Anyway, in all honesty, I don't think Chad is the guy who can lead this team right now anymore. However, as I've said, I submit to the will of Mangini and Schotty. Whatever happens, happens. I'd like to see Clemens now, but I'm fine with blind faith. I've been doing it for years now, I may as well continue. ------------------------------ On the topic of threads getting on your nerves, why bother opening them then? Seriously. Look, I am in full agreement there are a ton of other things we could/should discuss. However, I'm not in the mood to start threads. If there's a topic you sincerely want to discuss, start a thread. You know there is never a shortage of people to put their $.02 in. If a conversation about the QB is not for you, just ignore it. Me? I'll yap about just about anything.
Mangini and Shotty work with these guys every day. Unless you think you know more than they do, I'm going with their move right now. If it were Kotite in charge I wouldn't be so confident, but so far these guys seem to know what they are doing. I've said it many times, I don't see any NFL coaches putting a guy out there who can't do what they're asking him to do. If he couldn't run what they want him to, if he limited the offense, he wouldn't be in there now.
Winning the next two or three games is not really a miracle. Where are you getting that? By that standard there would be 28 teams getting a new QB every year.
Once upon a time Chad sat on the bench while Vinnie was stinking up the joint. Cotchery also wasted two years on the bench for no sane reason as well. That was one of the only mistakes Herm ever admitted too. Just because they coach them every day does not mean it is easy to bench a Vet who has the loyalty of the locker room.
penny is the one who limits our offense, not clemens. maybe they dont have enough confidence in clemens to a fault. theyre playing it safe and thats fine, but this is one of those calls that takes balls. not football knowledge. penny is as good as hes gonna get and at his age he'll only get worse. thats a given anyone who thinks penny is going to suddenly get better in his 30's after surgeries need not speak. i could go on forever as to why i think clemens should start. but its not my team, but that by no means has anything to dow ith how much i know about football i'll just repost this one last time cuz im done talking about this theres two schools of thought. your either better at running the ball. so you run to open up the pass, or vice versa. with our recievers and lack of run blocking we HAVE, i mean HAVE to pass to open up the run. thing is. chad penningtons throws are nothing more than glorified forward screens. allowing teams to play zone with 8 in the box prepared for both our run and passes. thing is, people say the strong arm is overrated, only if thats ther only asset that qb has, but clemens is also pretty mobile which also helps behind our patchy o line. the deep ball keeps defenses honest, especially with who we have at reciever you send cotch and coles deep on the same play a DC will have to pray both corners have perfect assistance from both Safeties. also on these shorter passes, Clemens can get the ball there faster. penningtons accuracy doesnt mean shit if your throwing 15 yards and under. if you cant deliver a ball to a target within 15 yards get the fuck out of the NFL right now. i know our line sucks but theyre not all that bad at pass blocking. its the fact our offense is now easy to read cuz we have no vertical passing game. thomas jones quote was good enough for me to realize its officially time to move on.
Yeah I'm changing my vote. Two weeks ago Chad looked like he was still serviceable. Now after the Giants game and this game he does not. There is NO excuse for running an incompetent QB when you have better options available. If we're subjected to Chad for the rest of the year we will go 3-13 with a little luck and then I believe that Mangini should be fired for gross incompetence and negligence of his coaching duties.
