Well, you pretty much got it on Sunday. If you re-watch the game, they lined up in the 4-3 for a good portion of the game. The results were just as bad if not worse. They did a good job at stopping the run, but they made a rookie third round QB look like Joe Montana. Honestly, we should just blitz 11 guys on every play because the secondary doesn't cover anyone anyway. They are awful.
The only difference is...the 4-3 WILL WORK w/ our personell long term permitted we get a quality edge rusher and someone else who can blitz. W/ the 3-4 we are at least 3 IMPACT players away from success.
The only difference is the run stuffer. To me, it doesn't make a difference between the 3-4 and 4-3. If you get blocked in one system and cannot make plays, you will be blocked in another.
i did see more pressure though. ALOT more cuz we were having none up to this point. the fact about trent edwards is he actually has a good arm and makes good reads. that and I think Revis is the only capable CB on this roster aside from a injured Dyson whos limited to slot duty and starting corner on occassional plays but his play looks affected. barrett makes a bunch of tackles cuz he gives a bunch of cushion and can run to the ball without getting blocked by the reciever if its actually a run. but he gets victimized on short routes and tackles well, another reason for high tackle count. rhodes is looking pedestrian and I think its because of the front 7's lack of pressure, he now has to mentally account for busted plays up the middle and cant focus on roaming in coverage and being a ballhawk. still our defense was better than usual, maybe its cause we played the bills, either way somethings gotta give.
Im starting to buy into this we're in the wrong system stuff. You watch the Patriots front men get so far into the back feild and disrupt 5 guys and then you watch are men up front and every one gets ocupied by a body and are only able to reach out and grasp at feet or a sholder pad. No Pressure what so ever.
No that was the 3-4 with Thomas lining up as a d end.. A real 4-3 would have 4 down lineman... and 3 real linebackers and they would play the 4-3 sceme. Just because we have a lb get in a 3 point stance on the line does not mean we have a 4-3.. The coverage responsibilitys are different and the lb's play more of a containment then a gap style d.. Mangini had everyone fooled but the other team.. That was a 3-4
I wouldn't go that far but at least Vilma could play the middle in the 4-3. He is useless in the 3-4. Like everybody else on this team he is undersized for the 3-4.
Its hard to cover a WR when we have no pressure on the QB and has 10 mins to throw the ball. Its not our DBs fault.....they cant cover all day.
Normally I'd agree with you but I don't buy it after this one. Edwards wasn't sitting back there for five minutes the way Brady was in the opener. There were several times where he got rid of the ball quickly and was hitting guys that were so wide open you had to wonder if the Jets DBs were even on the damn field. Our defense as a whole sucks big time.
It was up and down under Herm/Cottrell/Henderson. It certainly wasn't consistent. Against the run, 28th in the league in 2001, 18th in 2002 and 28th in 2003, the Cottrell years. Under Henderson, improvement to 5th in 2004, but then back to 29th in 2005. Last year, the Jets were 24th, and believe it or not, this year they are ranked 18th. The defense as a unit just hasn't been able to get off the field for quite some time, many years. To me, that's the biggest issue. Just force a few 3 and outs. The pass rush was better previously, but a lot of that had to do with John Abraham.
I was more referring to this past sunday. You're right..this has been a long time problem for this team. In fact it's been our achilles heel. Im not sure why w/ so many personell changes we continue to struggle year in and year out w/ stopping the run.
Because many of those personnel changes/decisions were for the worse or just came too late. Herm and Bradway made a few mistakes that were the reason for our defense being as bad as it's been. Keeping Marvin Jones and Mo Lewis way past their due dates was the biggie in 2002-2003 and letting Jason Ferguson leave in free agency is still haunting us to this day.
Neither will work effectively now. We have such a mish-mash of 4-3/3-4 D players its just a horrible mess , THIS is what the preaseason is for. If Mangini and Co still want to persist with this 3-4 dream D they are going to have to do a lot of rethinking. We are not the Pats and Mangini is not a genious , the wheels have fallen off and its now time to pick up the good bits and throw the rest away. I'm sick of this mediocrity , at this rate the likes of the 49ers will be back in the SB before we ever do , and look how bad they were!
Well w/ Ferguson... he has a huge contract in Dallas and hasnt exactly lived up to it. Sure that's part of the problem...but he only had 1 good year left in him anyway. Now the problem is screwing around w/ too many different schemes and overpursuit by the LBers..
The primary reason the Jets have had issues against the run is the constant back and forth between the 4-3 and the 3-4. Parcells took a bad 4-3 with some good parts (Douglas, Lewis, Jones) and reworked it into a 3-4 with a ton of free agent imports (virtually the entire line, all 3-4 journeymen, Pepper Johnson, Roman Phifer, Bryan Cox and the draft of James Farrior and Jason Ferguson.) The defense jelled in his second year and the Jets won 12 games. The problem was the with the exception of Ferguson, Lewis, Jones and Farrior everybody else was a journeyman and/or aging out. So in the 2000 draft the Jets invested heavily in the 3-4 taking Shaun Ellis to be the strongside end and John Abraham to be the weakside linebacker who is such a pivotal player in the 3-4. Ok, a year out from that the new regime comes in with a 4-3 in mind and suddenly the Jet's front 7 is completely wrong for what the Jets are trying to do. They move John Abraham to right end and try to move Shaun Ellis to 3-tech tackle and James Farrior gets lost in the shuffle along the way as he really does not have a natural position in the 4-3. The people who can make the transition easily do and a few people struggle. In 2003 the Jets re-commit to the 4-3, even though it has not been all that successful, by drafting D-Rob to play the 3-tech. The two linebackers who actually have 4-3 skills are aging at this point and after the season they're cut. In 2004 the Jets draft Jon Vilma, a pure 4-3 sideline to sideline middle linebacker. In 2006 after the inevitable collapse caused by aging, injuries and poor depth the Jets bring in Mangini and his 3-4 and the process starts all over again. It takes time to build a defense and a lot of value in terms of draft picks/free agents. The Steelers are in a 3-4 this year, depite Mike Tomlin's preference for a 4-3, because they have 3-4 talent and they weren't willing to risk a trip to the bottom of the standings in the AFC North by trying to jury rig a defense in one season. If the Jets really want to have a 3-4 then they need to go get the talent to play in a 3-4. D-Rob needs to go. Vilma needs to go (he'll probably be Pittsburgh's middle linebacker in 2 seasons when they finally switch over to the 4-3.) Ellis right now is in the same role that Lewis and Jones were in in 1999, he fits the defense but his best years are behind him and by the time the 3-4 jells he will probably be less effective. Anyway, that's my take on why the Jet's rush D has been so mediocre the last decade. In 1998 they were ok because Parcells had cut ties with the old 4-3 completely and in his second season had a good rush D. In 2004 they were good because the Jets were in their 3rd season of trying to build a 4-3 and they had gotten VERY lucky by having John Abraham and Jason Ferguson on hand at the start.
I really believe we should just revert back to the 4-3 for good. We are better position right now long term to succeed in that scheme that to finish the 3-4 rebuilding. Vilma, D rob, Ellis and Barton are all one time playmakers within it..and to replace them w/ unknowns and truthfully leave our defense w/ no front 7 impact players..just doesnt make sense. The 4-3 CAN work for us long term if we can just get an edge rusher and another quality 4-3 DT...that's alot easier a task than adding a 3-4 edge rusher, 2 more 3-4 DE's, and a 3-4 NT. This is still a young regime, w/ generally young defensive players. There's no reason we cant do the much easier task for long term success instead of making so many wholesale changes FILLED w/ complete unknowns
frank okam and d-rob in the 4-3 with vilma back at MLB harris and barton at OLB maybe a free agent proven 4-3 DE. something but yes we are built better for the 4-3. i agree. thatsa why i didnt like the move to the 3-4 and all the lip service about a different d weekly. never happened.
