Again you say that "Chad gives us the best chance to win" like it is definitive. I think it is far from obvious, and as I stated in the first post, Chad at his best does not lose the game for us. It is a different thing. I saw a thing on Schaub yesrteday and it struck me that we are developing our own Schaub, a QB that we know has all the skills and has excelled when he gets the chance, but stays behind a QB that should not be starting anymore. That is the case with Chad.
This is not going to be a season-long issue. The Jets need to keep Baker and a back in to block on most downs given the state of the line. Chad needs more than 3 targets out in a pattern consistently in order to find the one who is open, usually the checkoff underneath or in the flats. It's kind of a logical probability at this point that the Jets either won't have enough targets for him to find consistently or won't be able to protect him well enough when there are enough targets spreading the defense out. I'm not sure I'd like to see Clemens take the pounding that's going to happen over the next 3 weeks anyway. There's something to be said for not wearing more tread off his tires than you have to before you have a decent line in place.
far be it for me to interrupt another chad debate, but we are now in year two of the mangenius regime, and the defense still looks like crap. no sacks, and they can't stop the run. by year two, the tuna had the jets moving towards the afc championship game. these guys don't look like they could finish higher than third in any other division. :sad:
And Parcells took over a 4-3 defense with several people who were better in the 4-3. Some of them (Mo Lewis and Marvin Jones) adapted very well and others (Hugh Douglas) were traded. Make the scheme work or go with a scheme your players are suited too until you get the players to play yours. This is not rocket science.
The reason Chad is so divisive to fans is because many of the Jets fans are divisive. It aint Chad that's divisive. It's the fan base.
You mean that if Chad, in his 8th year as a pro, had the type of performance Clemens did through the first 3 quarters of his first career start, we'd be just a wee bit more upset? Gee, ya think?? Of course we're going to be more lenient on Clemens struggling right now than we would be on Chad. Chad is a seasoned vet who should never put up that type of performance, and should rightfully be called out if he does. There is more patience with a young QB, just like there was with Chad when he was starting out. I remember a game in 2003 against NE, Chad threw 5 picks. As I recall nobody was calling for him to be pulled. But you can't get away with that at this stage of your career. So of course when Chad performs poorly he's going to hear it, especially when you consider how limited he already is. Yeah he wins games, but under very strict circumstances. He is not the type of QB to bring you back from a multiple score deficit, so he really has little room for error, because as soon as he is out of his comfort zone, all hope for a win is pretty much lost and you'll know it even at halftime. I don't think anybody believes Clemens played great the whole game, but he turned it on and showed a LOT of promise in crunch time. That's what folks are praising him over, that he didn't fold. He showed a lot of potential, and to an extent it outweighs how poorly he played through the first 3 quarters. It's amazing to me how hard you're being on Clemens for struggling. I mean, it was only his first ever start on the road against one of the best D's in the league. Yet when Chad puts up a crap performance, like against Chicago last year or the Pittsburgh playoff game, it always falls on the whole team. Did you call Chad out then the way you're going after Clemens now?
oo, oo, i can answer that one on Junc's behalf: no, because Chad had a torn rotator cuff vs. Pitt. and no because the whole team played badly and we had no run game vs. Chicago.
I'll say this... Chad Pennington doesn't have all the great athletic attributes, but he makes it up in his intangibles. I'm not saying that just because I'm a Marshall fan. He's just got so much guts and leadership it's ridiculous. As NYjunc, says on Finheaven, it's not a coincidence that the Jets best years are when Chad is healthy most/all of the year. He's a great leader and you all should be happy to have him. Clemens could be a good one too. You might have to make the same type of decision that the Chargers had to make with Brees and Rivers...
And there we have it! :rofl: The whole team played badly against Chicago? The defense gave up 10 points! They pretty much only allowed one meaningful play by Chicago all day, unfortunately it went for a TD. Then again, even if they prevented the 7 points we still lose 3-0! The run game was working in the first half but the offense still couldn't score. Of course Chad is blameless though, it's everyone else! Oh, so Chad was able to play fine against San Diego, and down the stretch during the regular season, but when he comes up small against Pitt, it's because of his shoulder. I give him huge props for playing through the injury, but I honestly believe a healthy Chad would have still struggled.
A - Clemens was sacked 4 times bevause he held onto the ball to long when he had chances to throw the damn thing away. I like Clemens, and I liked O'Brien, but in both there is the tendency to hold onto the ball WAY to long. The Oline played MUCH better last week. B - Chad annihilated a very good defense in NE in 2002, and tore up an equally good defense in SD in 2004. He helped us beat an even better NE defense in NE just last season. C - We're 1-1 if Chad started last week, period.
Because he knew as I did... When he didn't start the second half after Clemens horrible first half, the Jets had no chance of winning.
Chad is not close to the QB he was in 02. In his last 4 starts against NE the Jets have never scored more than 17 points and average 13.75 points agianst them. 02 is 5 years a broken hand and two surgeries ago. You can make the argument that we win every game that Chad has missed because of injury but unlike a car collector who can afford to keep 2 classic JAGS in the garage, 1 to drive and 1 for spare parts, the NFL has a salary cap.
This is very true... people who reference the Jets record with Chad vs. without him need to remember that we have never had a DECENT backup... of course we aren't going to win when we throw Bolly out there...
No, actually the O-line showed up in Q4... that was the only difference... Kellen had 1 Mississippi, 2 Mississippi before the dogs were at the door in the first half...
just so you know, i'm in complete agreeance with you; i was just using Junc's predictable response. so over Chad's 8 year career, you can point to three times he beat a very good Defense. hey, let's throw Miami in there to make it four times. i don't get why people cling to the 2002 Chad. it was five years ago. the fact that y'all allude to 2002 - like Chad will ever play that way again - only exemplifies how delusional some of you really are. i played Pee-Wee football for about three years. when i got to high school, i didn't try out for the team based on what i did in 5th grade.
He had 2 to 3 seconds tops to throw in the first half AND the running game was getting stuffed repeatedly on 1st down giving him 2nd and long and 3rd and long to deal with. In the 4th quarter the running game started to click a bit as the safeties dropped back after Clemens started to find his receivers in the mid-range 11 to 20 yards down field. At the same time the Jets started keeping the TE in on almost every passing down to pick up edge blitzers on the left side and Clemens began getting 3 solid seconds to pick out a target and throw. There are people on this board who think 2-2.5 seconds is long enough to find targets on a consistent basis. This is only true if you are checking down rapidly and making 80% of your throws to targets within 6 yards of the line of scrimmage. Sound like anybody we know? Being conditioned to watch a game plan that only beats mediocre teams has created the expectation that that's how football is played.
Chad is NOT the QB of 2002 or 2004. To continuously use games or performances from then to say he should start NOW is ludicrous. Chad fan-dom is just overboard.
Solid points. The OL did better LARGELY because when Baltimore realized that Kellen could consistently throw over the yop of their coverage they could not stuff the box with safeties. If Chad is in there that NEVER happens. I do not understand why the CHad side cannot see that fundamental concept.
