I was never a great pitcher, so I can't speak in terms of "the right" way to throw any particular pitch. However, when I threw changeups, I opened my fingers, so there'd be less grip on the ball at the release point. (No one taught me a circle change, so I improvised my own change.) It was more of a 12-6er, and I had very little control over where it went, hence my feelings about what happened here. It looked just like what I used to throw. I reallize that the release point is the same as a fastball, that's what makes it harder to hit. I'm saying Joba completely blew it on his release point. He simply let it go far too early, and I think it had a lot to do with the fact that his fingers were open, rather than gripping the ball. You're surely a better pitcher than I ever was, but what in his repetoire would he have been throwing with his fingers open and pointed up? Maybe he was trying something different with a guy he could afford to miss with? I don't know, but that was still clearly not an intended fastball aimed at his head. I'm glad to hear you say you don't think it was intentional though. I can accept that you want him out for an extended period, since it hurts the Yankees. I'd be the same way if the shoe was on the other foot.
guys, it slipped out.. It was a fastball that just slipped out. Watch a replay, right after the 2nd pitch, watch his throwing hand, he goes to wipe it off a few times.
Umm, the Red Sox fans do the same. But to bring this to the same level, I distinctly remember Jason Giambi cursing his ass off at the last Red Sox pitcher who you claim wasn't throwing at Yankees
My favorite Josh Beckett Standing O story is when the Sox fans gave him one for six-plus innings of five-run ball. :lol:
I don't have a good shot of his hand as he threw the pitches, but the only thing that could be thrown with your fingers off the ball is a knuckleball (though only your knuckles would be pointing up, not your fingertips) or a variation of a 12-6 curve where only your index finger would be off. POSSIBLY a strange version of a palmball, but that's not likely. Without at least one of the first two fingers on the ball to guide it at release you have about a -235% chance of throwing a strike. Even that curveball I mentioned, guys will usually at least put the index finger on top of their middle finger, otherwise hitters at the ML level would have the biggest tip off to a pitch probably ever. One of the other pitchers on my team throws his curve like that, and the better hitters can usually see his finger sticking up very easily. Watching it again though, I think the second one MIGHT have been intentional. The first one clearly wasn't, but then Youkilis called time fairly late. That's usually a no-no, and something that can get you drilled. Plus the fact that he was involved in the controversy earlier in the game and the way Farnsworth didn't like his reaction after the homer the day before, it might have been intentional. I didn't think so before, and I'm not saying it definitely was, but now I do have some doubts. EDIT- This pretty much guarantees that Jeter gets drilled by Beckett at Fenway though.
I hope Farnsworth finally starts to earn his paycheck by bodyslamming Youkilis during the brawl that will inevitably ensue. That's what we signed him for anyway, right? It certainly wasn't to be an effective reliever.
Hey i'm 100% all for that...Farnsworthless can definitely throw it down...Slamming Youkilis would be golden.
Jobba suspended 2 games http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2999757&campaign=rss&source=ESPNHeadlines
So Murrell, if a Sox player comes out and hits a Yankee hitter (or in Joba's case, doesn't hit him) next series, he should get ejected right? I mean, it's been happening to us all year, so I expect no less. If they throw anywhere NEAR the Yankees next game, that should be grounds for ejection.
Until this eason ARod has been terribefor us in big spots. yeshe's come though a few times but a player w/his ability hould not ave been as badas he was. The 7th inning no stat is silly b/c we don't know the scores when he had those "big hits". He has been an embarrasment fo us in big spots util this year and this year will be meaningless unless he validates it w/ a good postseason. brosius and ARod are NOT small smaple sizes, they have both played enough in posteason to compare. Jeremy Giambi has 2 postseason series, that comparison is asinine. In the short time you have been here I have come to expect a much better argument from you. Tino was terrible for us early on but still played well defensively, ARod has been awful at the plate, in the field and on the basepaths. Give me Brosius and I'llspnd the other $20+ mil to bolster other areas of the team. i forget I should aplau a guy for having zero RBI in 12 straight postseason gaes, i should behapy our most talented player b far has been our worst player by far in october. He desn't need a Reggie game 6 but he does need to atleast contribute. if it's so absurd ten why did we have a much better team when Brosius was our 3B compared to the tems ARod has played on? You don't need stars at every position, you need great role players and Brosius was that. Again, you on't need stars at every positon give me a Brosius at 3rd and upgrade in other positions and you'll have a better team. I don't blame Alex for 2004, everyone went cold but he has been BY FAR our worst postseason player the last 2 years. Alex has ANOTHER chance this year(assuming we get back to the postseason), the man has had ONE big series for us(against the overmatched Twins), since then he has been dreadful and a complete embarrassment. I hope he FINALLY comes through for us this October.
We don't get to the postseason without him, first of all. Secondly, the close and late stat can be complemented with the stat that shows his home run breakdown by relative score, as well as the number of home runs he has had that have tied the game or put the team ahead compared to other players who you think are clutch. If you would take your bias and put it in your pocket for a couple of minutes, and tried to OBJECTIVELY find out how A-Rod performs, you'd see that it's nowhere NEAR as bad as you think it is in your head. It's actually pretty good. Your bias - which was likely magnified by A-Rod's poor performance in the playoffs, which was in itself magnified again by his stature as a great player - has skewed your ability to judge his performance. The numbers aren't there to "fool" you. Your eyes... your biases... your expectations... those are what fool you. Look closer, it's not a bad argument. Overall, they're not small sample sizes... but if you were talking overall, A-Rod is a better postseason performer BY FAR. However, the samples you are using to make your argument are small. You're talking about one or two key hits from Brosius, the career .245 postseason hitter. You're talking about two postseason series (or two and a half) from A-Rod, the career .287 postseason hitter. This is where it becomes well what have you done for me lately? And the sample sizes shrink. This is where you hold up the Brosius home run and say, "See? He could get it done!" While ignoring his general sub-par performance. Forgive me if I find it hard to believe that the reason that Tino is so near and dear to the hearts of Yankee fans is his excellent glovework. He wasn't just terrible for us early on. He continued to not produce in the playoffs. The only good run he had was 2000. But you know what the REAL difference is? You want to know why you don't harp on Tino? It's because the Yanks were WINNING while he was sucking. Whether you care to admit it or not, the performance of OTHER members of the team shielded him from your criticism. (Oh, and by the way, you'd only have an extra $10 million or so for another player if you swap Brosius for A-Rod, not $20 million.) Why?! Are you kidding?! It's because the starting pitching and bullpen were lights out!! Jesus H. Christ. You don't really think that the role-player abilities of Scott Frikkin' Brosius were instrumental to the Yankee championships, do you? With his sub-par bat and adequate glove. Yes, he had a huge and memorable hit for the Yanks. But please don't tell me this is how you want to judge a player's total ability and whether you want him on the team. It's like an amateur playing one hand of poker against a bunch of pros at the start of a tournament, and then the amateur gets dealt aces and wins the hand. Would you walk away from that table going, "Wow! That amateur is better than those pros! I'm going to bet $5000 that he wins the tournament!" It was one hand!
In baseball you get one retaliation. Pedroia was your retaliation for Dice-K hitting A-Rod. In this instance I would expect an itchy "trigger" finger by the umps, and would not be surprised to see an ejection after the FIRST questionable pitch.
Why not? I don't have a bias, i have rooted for ARod since the day we got him, I WANT him to succeed but he hasn't for the most part and he's been our worst player in postseason. Sorry if I can't look past that and celebrate his 9th inning Hrs up 9-1 against KC. Giambi has played in TWO series! How is it a good argument? Brosius has also been a WS MVP and has one of the greatest HRs in postseason history. broius has had a couple of bad series and his '01 postseason dragged down his average but even as bad as hewas in '01 he STILL came through for us in a big spot. Prior to his poor '01 postseason he was a .289 postseason hitter. Brosius was also at the end of his career, ARod has been in the prime of his career. Taking away the '01 postseason ARod and Brosius had about the same # of ABs: brosius '98-'00 postseasons: 40 hits, 139 ABs, 15 runs, 4 doubles, 1 triple, 7 HRs, 24 RBI, 8 BB, 29 Ks, .289 BA ARod postseason career: 37 hits, 132 ABs, 19 runs, 9 doubles, 0 triples, 6 HR, 16 RBI, 15 BB, 32 ks, .280 BA. brosius had him beat in hits, HRs, RBI, less Ks and BA. Not bad for an 8th or 9th place hitter up against 3rd or 4th place hitter. Oh and let's not forget brosius was a better defensive player. You are holding 1 poor postseason against him, brosius was an excellent postseason player until his awful '01 but unlike ARod he still came through even when he stunk overall. Brosius batted .170 in the '01 postseason yet still had 6 RBI while ARod in his last 12 postseason games has an average under .100 and has ZERO RBI. At least when he wasn't hitting he was doing other things unlike Arod. Sure that helps but Tino wasn't our supposed best player so playing good D, getting the big hit now and then was all we needed from him We NEED and have neededARod to produce and he hasn't. He's our most talented player yet has been our worst postseason player for 2 1/2 postseasons. Whatever the # is it would be better spent elsewhere. I was told it would be insane to think we could have a better team w/ Brosius over ARod, all I pointed out was that we were better- MUCH better. Sure we had better pitching but we also had better hitting even though we had "lesser hitters". Our O's during thoe years always came up w/ big hits, during the ARod years the team has followed ARod's lead and has struggled in clutch situations- that is the bigest reason we haven't won since 2000. The pitching hasn't ben great but it's been good enough to win, the failures of the O(led by ARod) have been the biggest reason we haven't won. Only '02 was our pitching so brutal we didn't have a chance but in the ARod years it was the O that couldn't hit the final 3 games, ARod almost by himself in '05 against LAA and last year we had Det on the ropes in game 2 but couldn't get a big it to put them away. he had more than 1 huge hit, again he was a WS MVP and a billion big hits for us. Even when he was awful in 2001 he still had a huge HR and 6 RBI which is 1 more HR than ARod as hit in his last 12 postseason game and 6 more RBI. Cairo was a quality bench player, there's a difference. You guys are getting reall silly.
The reason those teams were better is simple. The starting pitching and middle relief were much better. And that has nothing to do with Arod. Yes, he makes a lot, but it's not as if the Yankees have held off spending in other areas because they have him. It's because they've swung and missed badly at pitchers. Pavano, Johnson, J. Wright, Farnsworth, Vazquez, Igawa, Villone: THOSE are the guys who should be getting your wrath.
ARod w/RISP in Postseason: 4-28(.142), 6 RBI As a Mariner: 2-9(.222), 4 RBI As a Yankee: 2-17(.118), 2 RBI Interesting facts: -ARod has more HBP than RBI in his last 12 postseason games -Bubba Crosby has more RBi in that span. -ARod has more CS(1) than RBI in his last 12 postseason games. -ARod has more Errors(2) than RBI i his last 12 postseason game.
We have lost b/c we can't hit moreso than b/c of our pitching. Our pitching hasn't been great but our O has been bad especially in big spots where those dynasty teams thrived. The ONLY seies we lost since '01 b/c of pitching was 2002 against Anaheim. In '01and '03 we lost b/c we couldn't hit and ARod wasn't on the team but '04 against Boston the bats died, '05 against LAA the bats failed, '06against Det the bats failed. The pitching wsn't geat but it was definitely ood enough to win each series we lost.
