We were in the second round in 2004 because of Marty Schottenheimer not Chad. San Diego should have won that game twice and Marty double-clutched both times. In 2002 we got to the second round because of Chad and Paul Hackett, absolutely no doubt about it. 2002 is a looooong time ago.
I actually thought we played much better in preseason last year than we are this year. We played very close to the vest last year and got pushed around but we weren't that bad. I thought even in game 1 this year our starters weren't that impressive. I don't really look at the score but you look to see guys at least doing things that will translate into good things in the regular season. Pennington to me was at his best when he was loose and letting the ball go which he really didn't do very much of last year, probably because he wasn't fully confident in his arm, the scheme and the personal. He was very good in actual game manegement but he lacked the flair we saw in 02 and early 04 that made him a really good QB. In preseason I was looking for Pennington to have a kind of loose on field demenor and let the ball go a little more. Be a little less the control freak and more the guy throwing the ball and opening up the field. I really expected that from him if he was healthier and the fact that I haven't seen it makes me think he simply doesn't have it.
IF that is the case then we have nothing to worry about regarding the offensive line as well. It's only pre-season.
You can say that about any position on the field for any game. It came down to a kick, two actually, the guy missed both. That's the difference. Jim Kelly is in the Hall of Fame, but maybe if a better QB was on Buffalo that day Scott Norwood has a closer FG and he makes it. You can argue what-ifs all day. The missed kicks decided the game. The end. Then you got into this because your reading comprehension sucks. I've made the point a few times now, without a good QB we aren't playing in the second round of the playoffs. We wouldn't have started 5-0, wouldn't have won at San Diego, wouldn't have been on the field that day. Simple.
Last pre-season Chad didn't lead us to a point, I don't think. So now he's six points ahead of that pace. :up: Seriously, if you're waiting for him to open it up and loosely throw it all over the field, you're not going to ever see that. That was Vinny's game, not Chad's.
Chad has always been able to dominate a weak schedule, as the Jet early 2004 and late 2006 slates demonstrate. That does not make him a good QB just a very competent one.
In 02 Chad threw the ball all over the field, not the way Vinny did but he wasn't nearly as timid as he is now. The guy is a shell of that QB. Honestly I never expected Clemens to show much but the guy has some real tools and looks like he might actually be an NFL quality QB? Chad can't hold on to his job by not making mistakes, he has to put TD's on the board at a much higher rate than he did last year.
He has to put TD's on the board at a higher rate than he has done any year since 2002. Seriously, the Jets offense has been stagnant since 2003 and has not showed any of the spark that it had during the Vinny years or 2002.
I give up. You clearly haven't listened to a thing I've said but I'm the one with bad reading comprehension.
He has to win games. If we win 3-0, it's still a win. Vinny's last year was the "Shrek" year because every game was 13-12 or whatever, wins are wins. If you can't run the ball and can't block long enough for WRs to get down field, you're not going to throw deep well. Chad throws deep from time to time, maybe not enough to satisfy people who grew up on O'Brien, Namath or Vinny, but again, watch the games. I mentioned the Miami game at the end of last season, he hit Cotchery for a long one in the playoff game, you act like he can't throw the ball. He throws it when it's there, what other teams do you see that throw long all the time?
I have one thing to say after reading all of these posts. It is PRE-season. I will post an opinion after the first real game.
I not only listened to what you said, I've asked you a few questons based on what you said, which you sidestepped. Were the Steelers not 15-1 and at home? Did they not win the Super Bowl the following year? You called that "dramatizing", those are facts. If a superior QB will put a playoff game beyond the reach of a late kick, why have so many of New England's big wins come down to kicks? Why didn't our 1999 team go to the playoffs if you can do so without a good QB?
I watched us in preseason last year looked at the schedule and said 10 & 6 with Chad as QB. I admit I expected us to beat Cleveland and lose both to NE but that was based on what I saw.
jesus - this is my last response to you in this thread you actually never asked me those questions until now, and yes obviously those are facts. What you said that I called dramatizing was: It was dramatizing because you took what I said out of context and made it sound as if I was saying something I wasn't. Like I said, I don't know why so many of NE's games come down to kicks. I What does that have to do with how CP played in the Steelers game? They are a far superior team to begin with and the QB position is one position where they are far superior to us. Perhaps if we had a better QB we'd be the ones hosting the games. I do not remember that season well enough to answer your question I was away at college for my first semester. good day sir.
thats right look at the tape PMCRW, because chances are you wont see a whole lot of those. :breakdance:
Slightly off-topic, but the reason that the 1999 Jets did not go to the playoffs was that they had no other NFL caliber QB's on the roster at the time that Vinny went down. Rick Mirer was a total head case who was incapable of leading a team by 1999 and Ray Lucas took two months of intensive work by Charlie Weis and Bill Parcells to turn into a passable NFL QB. When he was ready to hit the field he went 6-2 down the stretch. The Jets still would not have made the playoffs if Lucas was ready to go a month earlier though. The Bills won 11 games despite the Jets (with Lucas at the helm) beating them in November. If Bill Parcells had covered his ass in the event of a Vinny injury the Jets might have had another QB ready to go game one and they might have won 11 games and made the playoffs. That Parcells did not do this was very strange and unlike him and I think he probably was just off his game that season.
That's completely on-topic. So in short, without a good QB, even that team with Parcells, Bellichick, et al coaching, Curtis Martin, Keyshawn, Chrebet in their primes, a good defense, etc, went 8-8. Point made.
He never said decent he said NFL caliber. There are good, decent and bad NFL caliber QB's. The Jets didn't have a bad NFL Caliber QB on the roster in 99 behind Vinny.
Rick Mirer had a lot of NFL starting experience, had won games, though he had no camp with us in 1999. Lucas ended up winning some games, that's how we got to 8-8. The point being, even with a superior team that could have won the Super Bowl, you need at least a good QB to get to the playoffs over a 16-game season. So when people write off Chad getting us there three times, I have to think they either have an agenda against him or they just don't know what they are talking about.
