Junc, You are going to have a heart attack...take it easy. I dont care what does Chad in the red zone...the blue zone..or even the pink zone. Herm Edwards was given the best run block offensive line in the NFL along with one of the best running backs. Thats clearly no longer the case...his fault? Not sure...but all I know is that he destroys talent he takes over..and never has had the ability to build with youth. Bottom line. All Chad does is win? Win what. 6 years and how many playoff games. 6 years and how many superbowls...appearances...afc championship games. He had the leading rusher in the NFL one of those years..so dont blame the talent he was surrounded by...unless you want to blame the Head Coach during that era....I wont hold my breath. And stop with the Ryan Leaf, Tim Couch stuff..nobody wants them. Just like the Chiefs firing Herm Edwards....nobody would want him when that happens. The point is this...when a DC sees the Jets on the radar for the following week...does he sleep better knowing he will be facing a guy knowing he only needs to concentrate his defense within 15 yards of the line of scrimmage. Would you at least admit that Chads limitations make it easier for teams to gameplan against us....much much easier. Again, not holding my breath here.
Relax? i'm relaxed, just pointing out facts. He was given the best run blocking line in the NFL? Really? is that why Curtis averaged 3.8 YPC the year before Herm took over? Curtis' YPV ewent from 4.0 and 3.8 in 1999 & '00 to 4.5 in 2001 under Herm yet we had the ame OL in '01 as we had in the other 2 years. Interesting. That must have been another case of herm destroying talent. He's led us to 3 PO apps in his 3 healthy years, we've won a total of 10 games in the 2 unhealthy years sine he took over as a starting QB. He's won a div title, the only non-Pats div title since 2001. No he hasn't won SBs but he's been a consistent winner and Herm was a consistent winner here as well. herm holds the jets record for playoff apps as a HC, Chad holds the Jets record for playoff apps as a starting QB. You guys want a strong armed QB so why not Ryan Leaf or jeff george- they had amazing arms and tht is what you guys are whining about w/ Chad. You want a big arm there are a million guys w/ great arms but very few of them can be good NFL QBs. I heard the same thing about Herm from you guys a few years ago, how he's never get another job after the Jets yet not only did he get another job we got a draft pick for him. Just like a DC sleeps better facing a Daunte Culpepper/Jeff george type knowing they have great arms but are as dumb as can be. Every QB has strengths and weaknesses, Chad's strengths more than make up for his average arm. Ask SD, i'm sure they didn't expect Chad to throw a 50 yd TD pass against them in the playoffs.
The year Curtis Martin lead the league in rushing he didnt have a run over 25 yards..that tells me that his offensive line was great and he didnt have the breakaway speed anymore..which is a fact. Herm did destroy talent..just look at the offensive line in Herms final year...there was nobody left..most were all on the inactive list. Those are facts. Thats like saying I dont like Mussina as a yankee pitcher...and the child saying "then would you like me to pitch?" Come on junc...you are better then that. Lets say we dont like our qb..and you bring up two loser qb's. Thats a bit childish no? Its the second time you have done that. Try harder. I for one never said Herm would not get a coaching job. Want to make a list of disgraceful coaches that got second chances then disappeared into the sunset? Herm is on his way out in KC in two years maximum. They could be one of the worst teams in NFL this year. Took only two years for him to destroy the talent he was given. Herm prospered here with Parcells players...one day you will admit that..but I doubt it. And here is lies the problem..average? He has an average arm? Please list past NFL players that had weaker arms then CP. For an NFL qb...he has no equals when it comes to arm strength. Saying he has an "average arm" is a knock on the word average itself. The word average will never be the same. Please list for me weaker armed QB's in the NFL and past NFL QB's too.
Do you read what you are writing? if you do then you are COMPLIMENTING Herm and his staff b/c Curts' best year was 2004 under Herm despite playing w/ most of the same OL pre-Herm. The OL n Herm's final year was HURT! ONE OL started and finished the season in the same position and that was Adrian Jones. it's actually nothing like that. You want a strong armed QB, there are a million examples of guys w/ HOF arms who were poor QBs. it takes more than an arm an I'd rather have a smart QB w/an average arm than a dumb one w/ a great arm. What talent was he given? Whe he took over in KC they lost thir best OL, their PN FB, another starting OL, they didn't have a young QB. What talent did he destroy exactly? You gusy act like KC went to 3 SBs in the previous 5 years. They made ONE PO app since 1998 pre-Herm and they missed the 2 previous years before herm- what did he destroy???? Chad's arm isn't half as bad as yo guys make it out to be. His arm is average, at this point he can make most of the throws he needs to make. This is the same man w/ a torn rotator cuff who threw a ball 60 yard in the air for a TD in the playoffs, in the rain on the road and then was an ince away from the doing the same the following week. The bottom line is people like you need a whipping boy, you need ascapegoat. Chad has done nothing but win since he became the starter but you'd rather have an unproven atronger armed QB just for the sake of having a QB w/ a stronger arm. Thankfully you and the other irrtaional posters are not running this franchise.
There aren't any QB's in the HOF with Chad's arm. The QB throws the football, it's a key element. Chad is a nice "hold the fort player" It's not even his arm that's the problem any more it's his own fear to let the ball go on timeing paterns unsless the player is wide open. His first instinct is to dump the ball off becuase he is afraid of his own ability.
I Cant Remember a Time when so much has been taken from preseason and practice.......WAIT UNTIL THE 1ST GAME....then let the controversey begin.......
No posting common sense points here please. Only over reactions and misguided thoughts please. We wouldn't want this thread to get hi-hjacked...
This is not based on a preseason game it's based on since he had his first shoulder surgery. The guy has been mediocre and tentative at best since than. The guy threw a lateral in a playoff game when the entire Pats line was coming.
I dont get where some posters get this from. This debate has been going on for the last 4 years. Chad can come out and go 20 for 20 and it will never change the minds of those that believe you need a qb that can defeat the elements..whether that is the weather...a defense that plays 11 guys in the box out of lack of respect etc. His accuracy numbers are out of fear...exactly how you explained it. The arguement shouldnt even about Chad..it should be about anyones preference in a qb. People that defend him are ok with a qb that cant use the whole field...a qb that allows DC's around the league to prepare for the QB and the QB only. They need not take up much time on the running back because they will have their set 8 men in the box. They really do not have to overly concern themselives with the receivers because if the Jets had a burner of a receiver his gifts would be unusable. This has nothing to do with the horrible game he had last week...or the great game he will have against the Giants. This has to do with a cold January day when the 10-6 Jets (he cant do better than that) are playing a tough defense and you need a qb that other teams can at least respect...respect...downfield. This has to do with what type of team you want to root for. You want a team that teases you every other year with no chance of winning the big one because you cant get 11 or 12 wins and homefield advantage. The same team that needs to win 3 tough playoff games on the road...with perhaps every 5 years getting the first one at home..then Chads your guy. Unless Mangini has something up his sleeve concerning this defense...Chad needs to find a team with a totally dominanting D...because Chad is not one of the 7-10 QB's in the NFL that can put points on the board by putting the team on his back.
junc..this is a crazy statement. What the hell does Curtis and a very good offensive line have to do with Herm? Herm called one play in 5 years with the Jets...the knee in Pittsburgh..its the only pay he ever took credit for...and trust me..if there were more..he would have told us about them. Herm didnt even know the offensive playbook. Herm couldnt even control his OC Hackett, who he instructed to open things up and then the Jets played even more conservative then they have in the past. Are you talking about cover 2 Herm from the Bucs? Or are you talking about blitz at all costs Herm when he brought in Henderson. Herm has no indentity as a Head Coach. Herm never called a play in his life before he got here. Please explain to me what exactly Herms philisophy on football. He has none..other then to pat players on the back and tell them "better luck next time". Dont even go down this road. Not half as bad as we say? Then you throw out there the one bomb pass he had after the surgery. Thats like saying Roger Clemens is a home run hitter because he hit one back in '98. Then why doesnt he at least attempt that every week. Not even complete them..attempt them. Perhaps its because all of the coaching staffs have held him back. Or perhaps its because his arm might fall off after a couple of them How friggin convienent. We need a whipping boy. Come on Junc...you didnt have to go down that road. If we needed a whipping boy we have plenty on this roster to choose from. Vilma? Robertson? Ellis? JM? This roster is filled with them. Your statement of "you would rather have an unproven stronger armed qb just for the sake of having a qb with a stronger arm" is the icing on the cake. How foolish do you think we are (I guess pretty dumb huh?) Yeah..many of us are rooting for Joba Chamberlain, the rookie for the yankees that throws 100 mph, to become our qb of the future..because he throws so damn hard. No Junc..we are not looking for a dart thrower..we are just looking for a qb that can stretch a defense and give us a shot in a tight game. A qb with a real NFL arm. Im still waiting for you to tell me what QB's past or present had a weaker one then Chad.
You said over and over that Herm destroys talent, if the OL got BETTEr under Herm hod did he destroy the talent on the OL? Herm didn't call defensive plays either yet you keep telling me how he destroyed talent. I think I got it now, if we did bad it was all herm's fault, if we did well herm had nothing to do w/ it- I got it. Every coach has a different style, Herm's philosophy was a smart, disciplined team on the field. We were always one of the best in fewest TOs, always one of the best in most TOs created and always one of the teams in fewest penalties and I don't care about philosophy's I just want to win and we did that under Herm. The only 2 years we didn't win were b/c we were beat up. again, he was an inch away from another in Pitt. he had a few bombs last year to mcCareins, Coles, etc... His arm is not nearly as bad as you guys make it out to be. Again, he'll never have that Ryan leaf type arm you covet but all the guy does is win. Robertson has been one the past few years as has mcCareins. Those guys have improved and now it falls on Chad for some reason. A guy who all he does is win, we would have won 5-6 games w/o him last year, we have won 10 games total in the 2 years he's been hurt since he took over as the starting QB. That is a very poor analogy when I was talking specifics about Clemens. Chad can and has and will again and regardless of streching the field he finds ways to win. As long as he is healthy we know we'll always have a chance to win.
He finds a way to win against the weak he has a lossing record in the playoffs and a propensity for dumb plays in the playoffs like last years insane decission in NE. With Chad at the helm we have been to the playoffs 3 times and advanced past the first round twice both against decent but not great teams. We need upgrades on this team to improve our likely hood of winning from a chance to a probability. QB is one of 3 or 4 positions on this team that needs an upgrade. We have a ton of young talent on this team right now we need to upgrade a lineman on the D 2 on the O and the QB and this is an elite team ready to take the next step.
He's 2-3 in the playoffs, he's not 1-4, 0-5 and he's won only the 3rd road playoff game in team history and he has as many playoff wins as any QB in Jets history. ALL QBs win %'s go down against better teams, Chad has beaten good teams throughout his career and he's lot to good teams. We don't win the div in '02 w/ Chad leading us to a win over Miami, winning at Foxboro(the next team to beat NE at NE was in 2005) in front of a Nat'l TV audience, humiliating 12-3 GB, humiliating Indy in the playoffs, beating the hottest team in the NFL in 2003 when they beat Tennessee, beating SD on the road TWICE in 2004, beating NE at NE last year. He's had his share, he always hasn't had help though. We can get to and win a SB but we need to build around him. The main areas we need to have a chance up front on both lines. if our OL was as good as a SD and our DL was as good as NE we'd be a SB caliber team.
Chad had a great team around him in 04 and he broke his shoulder. The guy can't throw the ball anymore. You're living in the past, we can win in a mistake proof game against crap teams the guy doesn't have it any more. We beat NE last year not because of Chad because Brady had a crappy game and NE didn't pick off the duck Chad threw that Cotch made an incredible play on. We kept the game close against NE in the playoffs untill Chad had a melt down. His arm is shot, it's not his fault, the guy is a tough SOB who I respect but the QB position demands someone who can throw the ball.
He threw the ball very well last year so why should I think he can't throw it anymore? So we beat NE b/c Brady had a crappy game and NE dropped an INT. That's a good excuse but when I say we lost at Pitt in '04 b/c our K missed 2 makeable kicks it's all Chad and Hrm's fault. Chad had a meltdown? the game turned on a fluke play, the Samuel INt was meaningless- the game was already over at that point.
He didn't throw the ball very well he managed games last year. Our D while not good statistically only gave up the 6th most points in the league last year which was way above the medium. Our O on the other hand was 18th in scoring which is below average. The lateral was not a fluke play the Pats were coming, there was no cushin for Cotch and Pennington was looking right at it. It was a bad decission not a fluke play.
He threw it very well the first half, he tired late in the year but he also did it w/ 2 rookie OL starters, 2 new starters on the OL overall, a D that stunk the first half, no running game, a new system. What Chad was able to do last year was nothing short of remarkable. and the fumble on the screen was a fluke play. 9 times out of 100 it will be an incomplete pass. I still don't think we wold have won but hat's th play that took us out of the game.
