Those guys all came in after Todd. I was talking about when Todd got here in 1976, the coach was Lou Holtz, who was a disaster. The Jets went 3-11 in 1975, 76 and 77, only the last of which Todd was the regular QB. It was a bad team. Yes, Michaels rebuilt it--ingeniusly--from the OL and DL out, but that took time. Walker, Harper, Klecko and Powell in 77, Ward in 78, Gastineau and Lyons in 79, etc. During all that time, Todd was in there with a subpar team. They turned into a good team when all those guys came of age, and not coincidentally that's when Todd got better, too.
That's extremely inaccurate. While talented, those Jets teams were never the best team in the NFL during those years. They were mistake prone, overly penalized teams that upset two teams in the playoffs following the 1982 season and lost to a Miami team that had beat them two straight that season. Let's not pretend that Jet team was something they were not. They were a talented team, but not a Super Bowl favorite. And while Marvin Powell was a very good OL, he isn't a Hall of Fame calibar player. Chris Ward? Chris Ward was good for the holding penalty. He wasn't a great OL. He was penalty prone. Gaffney one of the best possesion receivers in the league. That's pushing it also. And even Shuler, was was a great TE, hadn't come into his own yet,
All true. Shuler didn't get there until 1980 or 81, I think. Barkum was still playing by the 1982-83 playoffs. Ward's holding penalties cost Todd a lot of passing yards and some TDs, primarily to Wesley Walker. People also forget that as loved as Wesley Walker is--and he was my favorite player when I was a kid--he was able to be what he was because Todd got him the ball. They were a feared deap threat for quite a while.
Shuler arrived in 1978. He caught 11, 16, and 22 passes in his first three seasons. He did not catch any passes in the 1981 regular season, although he did in the playoff game. Barkum's final season was 1983 when he started 13 games and caught 32 passes. Also, to the posters who wrote that Derrick Gaffney was a top possession receiver- the guy caught 25 passes in 25 games during the 1981 and 1982 regular seasons.
Perhaps, but for the first half of Walker's career, 1977-1983, Todd was the primary QB while Walker was establishing himself in the league. Walker was hampered by injuries and dropping the ball for a few seasons early on, not too much Todd could do about that. Wesley was a great WR, no denying that, and he was great with O'Brien for a while too, especially after we got Toon to play opposite him. But it was Todd, like him or not, who was instrumental in Walker becoming what he was.
That is correct. He threw for 396 yards and four touchdowns on 10/23/77. The Jets led 27-14 entering the 4th quarter before blowing the game 28-27.
On 9/24/72 Namath was 15 of 28 for 496 yards with 6 TDs and 1 INT. The Jets won 44-34. On 10/22/72 the Jets once again beat the Colts. This time the score was 24-20. Namath was 5 of 16 for 228 yards with 2 TDs and 3 INTs. Namath's 1972 stats vs Colts: 20 of 44 for 724 yards 8 TDs/4 INTs Others to consider- Glenn Foley, 9/6/98- He was 30 of 58 for 415 yards with 3 TDs and 1 INT. The completion percentage is not what you would like, but he was very good in the game, especially in the 4th quarter. 49ers 36, Jets 30 (overtime) Joe Namath, 12/24/67- 18 of 26 for 343 yards, 4 TDs, 0 INTs Jets 42, Chargers 31 Joe Namath, 12/29/68- 19 of 49 for 266 yards, 3 TDs, 1 INT That completion percentage looks bad, but the game was played in a fierce wind. Namath was excellent when he had to be. Namath's deep pass down the right side of the field in the 4th quarter to Don Maynard is considered by some experts to be one of the top two or three passes in NFL history. Jets 27, Raiders 23 Joe Namath, 12/11/72- 25 of 46 for 403 yards, 1 TD, 2 INTs Raiders 24, Jets 16 From John Madden's 1984 autobiography:
You'd have to be crazy to make that trade! Trading a Smart Leader for a guy with an arm and no brains or toughness or leadership? HA! nyjunc, I will never forget Robinson's comeback game in Denver and his pass to Walker!
Ah Richard Todd brings back memories for me. I remember riding my bicycle over to Hofstra and wishing him good luck before a pre season game. Seems like just yesterday.
I think that's a little harsh, Todd displayed plenty of toughness and towrds the end he showed some brains and leadership. That's why I didn't get the trade, he finally got good and we traded him. That being said, I wouldn't trade Pennington for him.
Got Good? How did he do in New Orleans? Year TM | G | Comp Att PCT YD Y/A TD INT 1984 nor | 15 | 161 312 51.6 2178 7.0 11 19 1985 nor | 2 | 16 32 50.0 191 6.0 3 4 You call that good? 14 TD's and 23 INT's in two seasons? Barely a 50% completion percentage? Now, to the arguement that he was improving with the Jets when we traded him, here are Todd's stats for 1983, his final year with the Jets: 1983 nyj | 16 | 308 518 59.5 3478 6.7 18 26 OK, so he had the highest completion percentage of his career. You would expect that improvement as a guy matures. However, 18 TD's and 26 INT'S? That's a 60/40 INT to TD Ratio! If you took out Todd's best year - 1981 - in which he had career bests in TD/INT Ratio (25/13) the ONE AND ONLY season in 10 years in the NFL he had a better TD then INT number - then Todd has REALLY LOUSY NUMBERS! In the 9 Seasons outside of 1981 Todd threw 53 more Interceptions than Touchdowns. That averages out to 11TD passes and 16INT's per season! Harsh? I think real...and honest. Stop remembering Richard Todd through Green Shaded Glasses and you will see a guy who threw a ton of INT's and choked in the big games. A guy who could not lead, and who had physical talent but no head for the game.
Now, let's compare that to Chad Pennington, shall we? +---------------------------------------+-----------------+ | Passing | Rushing | +----------+-----+---------------------------------------+-----------------+ | Year TM | G | Comp Att PCT YD Y/A TD INT | Att Yards TD | +----------+-----+---------------------------------------+-----------------+ | 2000 nyj | 2 | 2 5 40.0 67 13.4 1 0 | 1 0 0 | | 2001 nyj | 2 | 10 20 50.0 92 4.6 1 0 | 1 11 0 | | 2002 nyj | 15 | 276 399 69.2 3120 7.8 22 6 | 29 49 2 | | 2003 nyj | 10 | 189 297 63.6 2139 7.2 13 12 | 21 42 2 | | 2004 nyj | 13 | 242 370 65.4 2673 7.2 16 9 | 34 126 1 | | 2005 nyj | 3 | 49 83 59.0 530 6.4 2 3 | 6 27 0 | | 2006 nyj | 16 | 313 485 64.5 3352 6.9 17 16 | 35 109 0 | +----------+-----+---------------------------------------+-----------------+ | TOTAL | 61 | 1081 1659 65.2 11973 7.2 72 46 | 127 364 5 | +----------+-----+---------------------------------------+-----------------+ A career 65.2 percent passer! 72 TD passes to 46 INT's. That's PLUS 26 for those of you using a Richard Todd calculator. The only season he was negative in TD/INT Ratio he started the season with a bad arm and only played 3 games before having to sit out the rest of the year. Now, let's compare Richard Todd's Jets Career with Pennington's: Chad has played 61 games and has thrown for 11,973 yards for an average of 196.28 YPG passing. 72 TD 46 INT and a 65.2 completion percentage. Todd played 102 games for the Jets and threw for 18,241 yards for an average of 178.83 YPG. 110 TD 138 INT and a 54.5 competion percentage. Again, who would trade Pennington for Todd? Not me - not even on the stats, not to mention the intangibles...
While we are at it, let's look at Ken O'Brien, shall we? +---------------------------------------+-----------------+ | Passing | Rushing | +----------+-----+---------------------------------------+-----------------+ | Year TM | G | Comp Att PCT YD Y/A TD INT | Att Yards TD | +----------+-----+---------------------------------------+-----------------+ | 1984 nyj | 10 | 116 203 57.1 1402 6.9 6 7 | 16 29 0 | | 1985 nyj | 16 | 297 488 60.9 3888 8.0 25 8 | 25 58 0 | | 1986 nyj | 15 | 300 482 62.2 3690 7.7 25 20 | 17 46 0 | | 1987 nyj | 12 | 234 393 59.5 2696 6.9 13 8 | 30 61 0 | | 1988 nyj | 14 | 236 424 55.7 2567 6.1 15 7 | 21 25 0 | | 1989 nyj | 15 | 288 477 60.4 3346 7.0 12 18 | 9 18 0 | | 1990 nyj | 16 | 226 411 55.0 2855 6.9 13 10 | 21 72 0 | | 1991 nyj | 16 | 287 489 58.7 3300 6.7 10 11 | 23 60 0 | | 1992 nyj | 10 | 55 98 56.1 642 6.6 5 6 | 8 8 0 | | 1993 phi | 5 | 71 137 51.8 708 5.2 4 3 | 4 17 0 | +----------+-----+---------------------------------------+-----------------+ | TOTAL | 129 | 2110 3602 58.6 25094 7.0 128 98 | 174 394 0 So, in 124 games for the Jets, O'Brien threw for 24,386 yards on 2039 completions in 3465 attempts avereging 196.67 passing yards a game with a 62.9 completion percentage and 124 TD Passes and 95 INT's. So if you double Pennington's stats, he is just above O'Brien all time - so on stats alone Pennington is #1 and O'Brien #2 in Jets' History - and if you put Namath #1 on the SB then the BEST you can rate Todd is #4 in Jets history - and I would argue that point. So, no way he is a Jets' legend or icon or anything else...
