That's pretty funny.. Every time I see Skip Bayless I just want to give him a judo chop to the neck.. God, I hate him..
Now I know I am not the end all be all you make me out to be... the differnce is you think we can be contenders sooner than reality dictates... I will elaborate after my meeting... But any one can spew sayings he's heard from his son's coaches (or Herm)... like the game is won in the trenches... are you turning into Herm... are you going to post me your your 3 keys to winning, which would be verbatum from Herms stupid ass piece of paper from his infamous press conference... common... Contenders??? We are a POSSIBLE playoff team, not even close to contender... We are REBUILDING still. We have a few pieces of the puzzle, again, a few. In the mean time, maybe you can point out some subltlties instead of the glaringly obvious points you make that apply to all football teams... And trust me you won't hurt my feelings, nor will I cry... but I would love an original thought once in a while instead of the same one over and over and over from ya... make it an intersting... :Wink: :smile: Ellis P.S. I'll remember to bring my stick, again, so we can listen to you (ad nausium), beat the horse some more about how offensive and defensive lines win the game, and how T Jones is gonna hate it here because our O-Line is not as good as Chicago's, yada yada yada... yawn.
If you are happy with all those 21 starters, then you are right we are not rebuilding... But, if you want to win a championship anytime in the near future you might reconsider. ellis
You're right...lots of positions can be upgraded just as with every team, but the Jets have a solid foundation to build on and using the term "Rebuilding" as an excuse for losing seems like a cop out. Now, teams like Miami, Houston, Buffalo, teams with fire sales...those are the teams rebuilding. We have some pieces in place for a long time and are in better condition than more than half the league.
Being a possible playoff team means that you are also a contender. Duh! In this NFL. For you to say Jets' are a rebuilding team & then don't want me or another poster' to focus on the O & D Lines.....Then you might as well be Bruce Coslett or Rich Kotite on the down low. :smile: Cause if a team is rebuilding, getting the lines in order makes alot of sense, before bringing in or upgrading the perpherial pieces. Especially on offense ! Try thinking a tad more before responding with inadequate responses. Oh Mighty One ! :beer:
Honestly...This isn't rocket science.... Its' just basic football. OK ! Now, tell me if you agree or not ... Building A 3 - 4 Defense : From studying other successful 3-4 defenses, I note that some key ingredients are 'a 3-prong' (triangle) at all points of attack. {The vision is of a upside down pyramid.} With that being said ...I move on. So...The NT is tri-anglulated by the 2 ILB's. The LDE is tri-anglulated by the LIB & the LOLB & LCB. THe rightside of defense is situated in the same way. I hope this is clear & you can follow this. The #1 problem that the Jets' have is that the most important piece of a 3-4 defense is the NT & the Jets' NT position is not at the adequate level (as of last season). to dominate & dictate a game. Also the front 3 {LDE, NT & RDE} have to hold there position & not give ground. The currently successful 3-4 defenses being used are manning there LDE & RDE positions with DT's{Check defenses of Pats', Chargers, etc.} & this is more effective in playing against the run & another reason why the Jets' run defense isn't stout. But Mangini has his own design in mind & Jets' fans will have to wait & see it. Me myself, I am nobody, but I see a different design for success.
There is more reports that came out today, on TGG, stating how D'Rob is looking solid and bigger up top all while playing effectively at the NT position. Obviously it will be impossible to see how it really plays out until September 9th, but if D'Rob has his shit together, our D should be in pretty good shape. The TC Report on the message board gives some good insight on camp. There are some guys going tomorrow to give some instant feedback on how the team looks.
Really... so last year, we were a contender, and you consider us one this year... thats a bold prediction... good luck with that... Reality, we'll be lucky to make the playoffs this year, and if we do, we still wont be considered a contender except by some of the delusional :smile: :grin: That being said... teams to consider Contenders: New England San Diego Baltimore If we played in the NFC, then yes we could be considered contenders... Please, let me know where I've said this... I never said don't focus on it, I've actually asked you to come up with an original thought, and/or describe to me a sublety of O & D lines that I might be missing rather than the same old garbage you have been posting on here in every thread you start or thread you attempt to hijack about how our O-Line is Horrible and T. Jones is in for a rude awakening not being in Chicago anymore. Now since the draft we have all heard you and watched you beat this horse (poor horse) to death about how your not happy with or O-Line and D-Lines. Now a few views on why I think our O-line will be better than last year that you won't ask me, instead you would rather assume I'm trying to belittle you: 1) Mangold and Brick are in the second year of pro ball and the mainstay of the line in year 2 of the new system for them... 2) We added some depth, and I believe, both of them learned about as much as you can from Kendall. I was never a fan of his and it seems we are trying to get some big men to finally play O-Line position in the middle (LG , C, RG) rather than the finess line we had grown accustomed to 3) Now you'll probably really disagree with me on this one, and that's fine, but I'm a firm believer that a better back makes an average line look a lot better that they really are. T.Jones hits holes hard and fast... You make it seem as if he played behind the Dallas line that E Smith ran behind, and they are not by any means. Outside of Leon, we had no one that hit holes fast last year, or that could make people miss, or break tackles. Not Houston, Not Barlow, not anyone. And Leon, well Leon is not an every down back at this point in his career and he shouldn't be expected to be. But T Jones, he brings all that to the table, and when you back works that hard, you O-line works that much harder... It creates continuitly, and willingness to block, and keep blocking. That is when the running game becomes fun for the O-Lineman. I firmly believe with T Jones and the youth on the line, you'll see a lot more of that this season, and why this is the perfect time to get rid of Kendall, especially if they think that Clarke can take the riegns... which by all accounts it looks as if the coaching staff does. He is a giant man, and played with Mangold in college, which will help his learning curve. Mangold will be able to help him the most, putting everything in terms he's used to and helping him pick up fast. 4) Mangold, with a year of experince under his belt will be better able to make the line calls instinctively, rather than hoping he made the right call. That confidence alone, it carries to the unit as whole. 5) I think our RT situation isn't as big as people might think... I think the bigger problem is Moore at RG... it could be just me, but I just don't think he's that good. He seems to struggle all to often, and that results in line splits shrinking up to cut down the space between lineman, in order to "help" one another out, but at the same time that cuts down running lanes, shortens the route to the passer, etc... all in all, that is not good. On why I say we are still rebuilding... 1) Like you, I feel we can upgrade on the right side of the ball on Offense... 2) We lack playmakers, true playmakers. We still lack a reciever that can strike fear into a defense with the thought that he can take it to the house at any given moment. Coles is fast, but doesn't play as fast as his 40 time... Go ahead and jump on me for it, but thats my view... How many times have you seen him run free down the sideline. For me, it's not enough for as fast as he runs. Cotchery is a great Possesion reciever, with very good speed, but not game changing speed and McCariens is ehh, McCariens. Leon, he has the makings of a playmaker, and from what I see he's it right now in that department, until they Brad Smith on the field a little more often.. he'll remain it. We need someone else to step up in that department. 3) TE's... we are bleow average in what we carry in TE's. Blocking wise, catching wise... just TE wise. Baker, and again, I'll hear it about this, is servicable. He'll flash once ina while, but he's not the bets of blockers, and doesn't get the ball enough, which leads me to believe that something is not right, especially from a Shottenhiemer offense that featured the TE in SD... I know, our personel are not on the same level on offense with SD, but you've gotta believe if he was as good as some believe on here he would get a heck of a lot more touches. 4) We lack the quality depth that championship teams have... it's self explanitory... 5) Our Defense... it's a lot of question marks, as far as I'm concerned. Can D-Rob play NT effectively, Can Pouha play it effectively and not get hurt again. Ellis, he's up and down... who shows up this year? Coleman (DE) can he play a starters role? He's a career back up in Dallas... We paid him big money too!!. Can Bryan Thomas build on last year, or did he bust his nut? Do we have the right combination of LB's for a 3-4? Can Vilma play the 3-4 as effectively as we'll need him to? Who plays corner with Dyson? Revis? Miller? Poteat(cough)? Coleman? Basically we still need some players at some big spots. We need quality depth, and have way to many question marks still coming into the season. Contenders don't come in with this many questions and such a lack of quality depth. While we are not in stage one of rebuilding, we still aren't done... We are still a few pieces away in starters, and then we need depth. I can hear it already, well NE has a ton of questions too... yeah like which of the seven very good pro recievers they have will fill the 3 reciever rolls... would love to have that problem Just a few thoughts So... I will ask again: 1)Please, enlighten us all with an original thought as to why our O-Line is so horrible, or going to struggle. If you believe we are contenders, contenders do not have horrible offensive lines. It can't be much worse than last year... 2) Please point out some sublty I might be missing about the O-Line and D-Line. Please no Hermisms' or blantanly obvious answers of how gmaes are won in the trenches... having played this game of football, I'm all to aware of how that works. I'm willing to bet we get some long winded rant to respond to this, rather than an answer that is original, but I can hope. As for me, I remain optomistic, and hope I'm very wrong and am more than willing to eat crow if we end up being a true contender, with all the makings of one... but as for now, I'd say we have way to many questions that need to be answered. Ellis
2 first round picks went into OL last year. We drafted OL again this year and brought in FA's for the OL. We also have a 3rd round DL NT coming back from injury and signed a large body at DE and drafted a large inside LB. In the 3/4 the front 7 is part of the DL. The Jets are a rebuilding team and they are rebuilding the lines. In the salary cap era where you can't guarantee holding onto players you need to have high quality peripherial pieces in place if you are going to challenge for a title and not a WC. It seems to me the Jets are trying to do both, which is exactly what the Pats have done all these years with the exception of getting one of 3 elite NFL QB's with a 6th round draft pick that has allowed them to seperate from the pack.
I totally agree with you. Jets' are trying to do 2 things at once. This is the reason they're contenders & pretenders at the same time. This is also the reason I get so pissed off with the 3rd round selections in last years draft.
Agreed... the lines can't be worse than last year, cause there was nowhere to go but up. As of now, Jets' are a contender. Do they need upgrades at quite a few positions....YES. Jets' .Defensively....Jets' play a scheme & can compensate w/o having a All-Pro at every position. Offensively...The O-line will dictate the success of the Jets' upcoming season {barring injuries}. I originally foresaw that the best the Jets' could do this season {after seeing sked'} was 7-9; 8-8; or 9-7. But then something happened. I don't know if it was blind hysteria or what, but I reconsidered & I see that if certain things fall into place .....Jets' could possibly be 11-5; 10-6; & possibly stretching it 12-4. Now....For this to happen Jets' would need to lose there 1st 2 games to Pats' & Ravens. This will force Mangini & team to make neccessary changes as well as toughening up. Jets' will then go on a roll & win from there. I can then see a 11-5 record & a playoff berth. From then....Anything can happen....especially with solid O & D lines...lol. Now....Is that a few "nuggets" 4 u buddy. Cat...I'm "The Master"... when it comes to football. Remember...Losing Kendall is an upgrade. Jets' O-line actually played better those 2 games he was out last season & replaced by {Norm Katnik ...to me. Yes...Baker isn't the answer at TE, but then his best feature is catching & not blocking....so what u gonna do. McCarriens is the Jets' best deep threat, but Jets' have a weakness at the QB pposition. Chad can't scare nobody as a passer. P.S......I don't want u to eat no crow...Unless its' bar-b-qued...lol We'll all celebrate at the SB party...2-gether.:beer: As for the LB's...they all will look good with a strong front 3. W/O a strong front 3, there deficiences will show & we'll scream at em'. Hobson belongs at ILB & not OLB. A blind man can see that. Barton can play anywhere. He is Jets' strongest LB. Bowen needs to show something special. Anyway....we can go on & on...but nothing can be shown until the 1st couple pre-season games. Then we'll have some ammo to talk about. This is just chat 4 fun ...until the whistles start blowning. Question for you...How big a threat is N.E. Pats' if Brady goes down for season in week #4 ? lol....:shit: Also...The Herm-ism's are for entertainment purposes only....lol. Herm also had Jets' in playoffs every year Chad didn't get hurt. Did u notice that ? Homeboy makes that chippy FG & Jets' are in AFC Championship game???
They fall back into the group... but They very well could still be in the upper part of the AFC still, if they are able to keep the cript keeper upright. Hard to believe but the guy probably still has one of the strongest arms in the league. NE has a good line, and even better receivers... you would see them really attack downfield with those receivers... What seperates them most from the group, is exactly what our esteemed collegue Winston so plainly states... Brady, the elite QB. With Vinny as the back-up, it would be just the Jets luck that we knock Brady out in week two, win the game and have Vinny take over. He then proceeds to leads them to yet another Super Bowl... how shitty would that be. :sad: Ellis
I don't think Carolina is in that category at all... what failed Jake and the Panthers last year was the running game, and missing Mohammed, and if I remember correctly, Smith was out as well. Jake Delhoume is very under-rated. He's a good QB. Injuries killed the Panther's season last year. Let's face it Meshawn was no Mushin... They also have what I'd consider probably the best back up in the league in Carr... Also both SD and Baltimore and probably even Carolina are more complete teams, now don't take it out of context... by this I mean they have a lot less question marks coming into camp then we do, especially defensively... you are probably talking about 3 of the 5 best defenses in the league there, so a lot closer to contender status than pretender. The Jets have a lot more questions and to expect them to take another quantum leap forward the likes of last year is asking a bit much IMHO. Ellis
Id have to go with Brady and Chad. Just like others mentioned we manhandled the d-line of New England in their house. They handled ours @ Home but for a half; the other half we made our ditch effort to come back but came up short. In the playoff's we were in there till the backwards pass. I keep coming back to Brady's quick lazer passes and thinking of Chads soft floaters. That to me is the major difference.
