Yeah, I saw them that game. The right thing to do was to shut him down completely after learning it was a torn rotator cuff. But Herm didn't. I don't believe for 1 second that it was Chad's decision to keep playing. Herm should have done the responsible thing and think of the player's well being first. But he didn't and I'll never forgive him for that. He put Chad's career in jeopardy...twice.
Let me qualify this: Even though I was a giant Herm supporter especially when I argued with Champ despite not being registered on the site (according to Champ). :lol: Ok back on topic................... I dislike Herm as much if not more than the next guy, however: Can anyone honestly see Chad going to Herm and saying," You know Coach, I can not play, my arm is shot, I can not go out there!". There is no way on gods green earth, I can envision Chad saying this. I just can not see it. I think Chad has to bear some responsibility here. I just can not see him trying to pull himself out of a game. For all his limitations physically (yes we all know them well) he is not a pussy, he is a man among men and hopefully even if you can't stand him, you will admit that. The guy is a warrior sort of speak, that is why despite his limitations, he can at least galvanize a football team and is part and parcel why nobody as of yet has beaten him out of the starting spot, even though................. well you get the point. I think the part you can blame Herm is the lack of aggression. If you look through history more times than not the aggressor wins. Through all his fire and brimstone and bombastic press conferences he was about as daring as a eunic at a hooker convention. Not even taken into considertion that he has no knowledge of certain letters of the alphabet such as X's and O's. LOL this post is a double wammy a negative one about Pennington and Herm................ oh lordy what was I thinking.
I agree completely. Some people want to argue it both ways--saying Chad was stupid for trying to play while John Abraham was a pussy for not giving it a go. Can't have it both ways. You can make the arguments either way but you have to be consistent. A QB going out there and giving it a go can inspire a team and I think Chad did that. Jim McMahon didn't have a great arm and he got hurt a lot too, wasn't even as good a QB as Chad was, but he was a leader and did his job well enough to win the Super Bowl. Of course they had one of the all time Ds and they had Walter Payton, but that's the point. Teams win, not individuals. Individuals contribute and in some cases inspire and lead, whether they can throw a ball 65 yards in the air or not.
McMahon is the perfect example. If you put him on the Jets right now he would not win either. He won because he did have a great all-time D and Walter Payton. We have arguably the Third best D in the division and a middle of the pack Rb running behind a Mediocre O-line. McMahon was surrounded by a team that had hall of famers on it. He did not have to inspire just go out play and not screw up. The current Jets need a Qb who can go out and win games. Win Games vs Peyton, Brady and Palmer when it counts. Two Qb's who are already in the Hall of fame and one with a good shot to get to that level. Add that to the fact that the Pats are better than us on both sides of the ball and Brady has better weapons than he has ever had, Peyton has won the big one and is cementing his legacy in his prime and Palmer has the offensive tools to will his team to win and that does not bode well for the Jets. I will not even mention Rivers playing with a Rb that will be one of the greatest of all time and a Defense with potential to be on that level as well. We need a Qb who can win games not just be smart enough not to loose them.
As soon as the doctor's told Herm & Chad that his rotator cuff was torn, Herm should have shut him down right then. After he hurt it the first time, they sat him down for 2 or 3 weeks and then he played the rest of the year. The next year, it was obvious the strength wasn't back fully yet and he was still playing. Personally I think it was a mistake, but was willing to take their word that he just needed to work out the rust. Then he got hurt in the Jax game to the already weakened shoulder. Knowing what he had just gone through and seeing him hurt his throwing shoulder again, Herm still let him go back in the game. That's twice he should have shut him down but didn't. I don't fault Chad for wanting to go back in, because just like Curtis Martin, he's a gamer and a huge competitor. I don't fault them at all but the blame should always fall on the coach's shoulders because it is ultimately their decision to put the player back in the game. Herm failed at doing this, twice with Chad, and then also with Curtis.
It's easy to say now because in hindsight we know we lost at Pittsburgh and Chad got hurt the next year. And what happened going into 2005 to me is a lot more debatable than the 2004 playoffs, because when you get that close with a veteran team and your guys want in, you have to put them in. I realize hockey is a different sport, but it's just as brutal and guys do it in hockey all the time. Last year Doug Weight was badly hurt and continued on until his team won the Stanley Cup. In 2003 Scott Stevens was playing with a head injury that would eventually end his 20-year career the next season, but he played on to win the Cup. Curt Schilling in 2004, while I guess it's now in question whether that was blood or ketchup coming through his sock, still played hurt and led his team to the championship. When you win it's called heroic, when you lose it's called stupid, but at the time you're out there playing hurt you don't know how it's going to turn out. You give it your best shot and live with the consequences.
If it was Chad's left arm I could see him playing, but it was his throwing shoulder. I've just never agreed with coaches putting their players out there with potentially career-threatening injuries. Playing through pain is one thing, but not at the expense of possibly ruining the player's career.
Chad and Herm both had to do whatever was necessary to win. If they did not make the playoffs that year Herm was gone and Chad would have been cut with his huge contract and would not have been given the chance to compete for his job. They did what they had to do to cover their a**es!
I don't see how anyone can fault them for trying to win at all costs. They are grown men who make a lot of money, as you mentioned, and you don't get that many chances to win in a football career.
If I remember correctly, Dr. James Andrews assured him that he would not do any more harm to his arm by playing the rest of the season before getting surgery.
Hey, this board is blessed with doctors, lawyers and some of the greatest football minds known to man. They've just underachieved a little, so they share their knowledge here rather than waste it completely.
Doing what they had to do for themselves is not what is necessarily what's good for the team. I would have rather had brooks in there. Chad was useless in that game. Play to win not to loose. That is where Herm failed and that is why we lost that game.
Not at all, but the man is not perfect. As soon as he said "you tore your rotator cuff" that should have been the end of the discussion anyway. Instead of "well, can he still play with it?". It was an irresponsible decision made by the head coach IMO.
What they had to do for themselves and the team was the same thing, try to win. If you really wanted Brooks Bollinger in there--a rookie who never played thrown into a divisional playoff game on the road--it just shows you're not rational when discussing Chad. Chad did throw a long TD bomb the week before at SD, he had to be in there, that's just crazy. And it's lose, not "loose".
The man had a torn rotator cuff. He can't throw that well when he is healthy! I would rather have a rookie that can throw and at least run for a few yards then a Qb with a rotator cuff that can't do anything. I don't care if our Qb was Peyton Manning. Brooks could had the ball of to martin just as well as Chad. Nothing else happend other than run left, run right and two missed field goals due to the fact that chad could not throw for five yards.
The QB does a lot more than execute the plays, he has to coordinate the whole offense before the play even happens. You wanted a rookie who didn't play all season doing that on the road in the playoffs? You honestly think we'd have even been in the game for it to come down the the FGs?
