Being a #1 WR and an elite WR are two different things, Coles is definately a #1, asfar as an elite WR how many guys are truly elite? Chad, Holt, Harrison, maybe Roy Williams is on his way, and Moss and TO are probaly on the down side of being elite.
There's just no question that there are a few #1 receivers in the NFL that are much better than Coles. He does really well when compared to most #1's though.
The lack of presence in the endzone is purely a factor of who is throwing to him and how he is used. When Vinny was throwing to him in 2001 he had 7 TD's in 59 catches. None of the QB's he has been with since have had Vinny's arm-strength and consistency on the deep ball so his TD's have gone down. Put him with Peyton Manning and he'd be a 10-12 TD guy.
Not to take anything away from Marvin Harrison or Reggie Wayne, but can you imagine Coles with Peyton Manning throwing to him every year?? We would be talkin Hall of Famer.
Coles has an outside shot at the hall now. It would require a ring or two and somehow managing to play another 7 years or so. Wide receiver is one of the few positions where being where he's at at 29 still leaves the door open. I think the odds against are enormous though, probably 50-1.
Maybe that plays a factor but of Coles 7 Tds in 2001: 2 were deep(opener vs Indy 38 yds, vs NE 34 yds) 3 were lobs where coles made a great play(2 vs. Mia 22& 25 yds, at NO 7 yds) 1 was a screen pass(40 yds at Oak) 1 was a medium range( 17 yds at Mia) last year Coles had 6: 2 deep(46 vs. NE- yes it was only about a 10 yd pas but he as put in position to have open space and make people miss. also 58 vs. Miami) 1 lob(22 yds vs. Miami) 3 medium range(12 vs hou, 10vs. Buf, 21 at Minny) The 2 years look very similar and if you lok at '02 it alsolooks similar. That's just who Coles is, he's not a big RZ target. ramsey has a very strong arm as did brunel and in 2 years in Wash he caught just 7 total TDs.
Coles has aboslutely no shot at theHall righnow unless he averages 90 recs a year and 10 Tds a year for the next 3-4 years AND we wn a SB. he has very good #sbut don't forget alot of WRs have inflated #sin this era- he has NO SHOT at the Hall as of today.
Just pointing out that the one year he played with Vinny his numbers look different from all the other years in terms of TD's per reception. 2003 and 2004 you have to take with a grain of salt given that Coles was playing with a foot injury both years. His YPC was down in 2003 and in the toilet in 2004 because he couldn't get any burst due to the bad toe.
For you to say no shot indicates that you don't understand how cumulative events work. Coles, at this point in his career is halfway to where he needs to get to to make the hall on numbers alone. 1,000 catches would put him in the hall of fame almost certainly. Certainly if he had a ring to go with it, which I pointed out above. At the pace he has set (average of last 3 seasons) he will reach 1,000 catches in just over 6 seasons. That would make him 35 at that point, which is the age that Marvin Harrison is now. Think about that for a second. Marvin Harrison at 35 has 1,022 catches and at his current pace Laveranues Coles would have 997 catches going into 36. Now of course the odds on Coles actually managing to stay healthy for 3 more seasons let alone 6 are fairly long, combined with the odds he will win a ring in 6 seasons you get very long odds on him going to the hall of fame. But to suggest he has no chance is just ignorance of how the process works. For the record: Marvin Harrison established his real shot at the hall of fame at the age of 30 in 2002 by catching 143 passes. Before that he had caught 522 passes (6 more than Coles now) and you'd have said he had no chance at the hall of fame.
Vinny also had 441 attempts in 2001 while Chad only had 399 in 2002 so obviously vinny had more chances to hit Coles for a TD. I don't think 1,000 recs would get him in. He will end up w/ a low YPC and low # of TDs and that's assuming he keeps up his '02-current pac where he has averaged 85 recs a year o it would ake him anothr almost 6nyears at that pace which I doubt he can keep up. That is assuming alot to think he can average 85 recs a year for the next 6 years. Let's not compare him to Harrison, Harrison passed the 500 rec mark a year earlier and had 62 Tds after 6 seasons while after 7 Coles has just 31. He's NOT getting to the Hall unless he gets alot better over the next 5-6 years. Maybe you should read what I actually wrote? I said as of now he has no shot, I said if he averaged 90 recs a year and 10 Tds a year for the next 5-6 years and in win a b then he'll have a shot. I think we have a better shot at a SB than seeing Coles put up those type of #s. Coles isn't even HOF discussion worthy at this point.
I responded to your statement that Coles has "NO SHOT" at the hall of fame. That statement is ignorant of how the process of qualifying for the hall of fame works.
You should read the entire sentence first, again I said as of now he has no shot and in reality he'd have to have much better years than he has had for the next 5 years or so to even have a shot. I love oles but he is not a HOF player.
I remember that 40-yard touchdown vs. Oakland in the final game of the year (the game that got pushed into January because of Sept. 11). It's also the game that Hall kicked the 53-yarder to get the Jets into the playoffs. I think it was the longest play from scrimage all year. I still have it on tape (VCR). That game and the game vs. Indy the day before Christmas Eve are memorable from 2001. Not to go off on a tangent, but who remembers that 20-yard run vs. Indy by Testaverde when he pitched it back to Curtis for another ~15 yards. That's the game also when Anthony Becht scored the winning touchdown with a minute left. May have been the single greatest play in the Jets career of "Hands of Stone" Becht.
That Indy ending was great, I vividly remember the Vinny run and the march to the winning TD w/ about 2 mins left and 0 TOs. Our pass O stunk that year, Vinny didn't even have a 200 yd game until that Indy game which was in Week 15.
anyone questioning coles legitimacy as a top reciever is nuts. sure hes not the top long yard TD grabber. in fact i think players outside of the jets give him more credit than fans of his own team do. in fact hes one of the few players aside from penny any fan of another team knows. and penny is only known for being a crash test dummy. the guy is great. over the middle stretch the field to get other people open. he does it all. not to mention he catches almost anything thrown his way. and is almost like a RB after the catch. gimme a break........Laverneus Coles and Donald Driver are two of the most underrated WR's to come in this league for a decade.
Dude...he's not a HOF receiver. He is not a game changing receiver. He is a legitimate #1 receiver. He just does not appear to have the drive that Harrison has to play another 7 to 10 years and even then...have you been paying attention to the whole Art Monk saga? His fans constantly quote his overall numbers, but he hasn't gotten in yet because the HOF voters understand that any really good receiver who plays for 20 or so years will have huge totals, but that doesn't necessarily put them among the league's elite and certainly shouldn't qualify them for the HOF...that place is for legends, and ain't nobody gonna be talking about LC ten or fifteen years from now.
Monk was already on the downside of his career at the age of 29. He lasted 9 more seasons but never approached peak production again. He was also 40 receptions behind Coles at that age, or basically a half season's work. I don't necessarily think Coles has more than a few seasons left but I'm not going to assume that would cut next year in half as Monk's following season was and I'm not going to assume that Coles can't maintain peak production until mid 30's given that a number of receivers have done that. I think he's a 50-1 shot at this point to make the hall of fame, as I indicated above. If not for the concussions I'd make the odds a good bit better than that. Find me 3 receivers who had 500 receptions after their 7th season in the league (70+ catches a year) who did not make the hall of fame. I'll save you a little bit of time on the search: there are only four retired players (not Art Monk) who were at 500 after their 7th season and did not make the hall of fame. Have fun finding them. All four were very good players who never played for a championship and got hurt very quickly after their 7th seasons, the two factors that kept them out. There are a few active players who make the list including Harrison, Keyshawn Johnson, Torry Holt, Randy Moss, Terrell Owens, Hines Ward and Laveranues Coles. Coles has by far the fewest games played among them with only 109. Having actually gone and done the research I'm going to say that it's going to take an injury to keep Coles out of the hall of fame. Nobody in his position to date has not made the hall of fame unless an injury caused their play to tumble dramatically.
Here are #1s I'd take over Coles... R Moss (now that he's on the Pats, he'll play) Hines Ward (he's a better version of Coles) Chad Johnson Marvin Harrison Reggie Wayne (I know he's not a #1, but had to count him) Andre Johnson (again, better version of Coles) Javon Walker Santana Moss (when Healthy, he's better in my opinion) Terrell Owens Calvin Johnson (taking a shot here) Mushin Muhammad Larry Fitzgerald Antquan Boldin (again, I know he's not a #1) Torry Holt Steve Smith That's a lot of guys ahead of Coles..... Coles is a good player, but I think he's a #1 by default in NY...
