Marlins @ Mets Series Thread

Discussion in 'Baseball Forum' started by 3rdAnd15Draw, Apr 30, 2007.

  1. MSUJet85

    MSUJet85 ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
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    Heilman is anti-mighty
     
  2. vinsjets

    vinsjets Active Member

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    Willingham has been crushin the ball today.. 5 rbi's...
     
  3. Cman69

    Cman69 The Dark Admin, 2018 BEST Darksider Poster

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    I don't understand why the Mets insist on making Heilman a middle reliever when he clearly doesn't want that job. He can't be worse as a starter than Pelfrey or Park.
     
  4. 3rdAnd15Draw

    3rdAnd15Draw Well-Known Member

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    This is the same argument we heard last year when he started sucking in the pen. He's a terrible pitcher right now, what makes you think he's just going to be able to "turn it on" and be a servicable starting pitcher?
     
  5. Cman69

    Cman69 The Dark Admin, 2018 BEST Darksider Poster

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    Not in New York, but perhaps somewhere else he just might be serviceable. They're making him do a job he doesn't want. Its a classic case of "square peg/round hole". If they don't see Heilman as a starter, they need to either trade him or release him. What they're doing right now isn't working for either Heilman or the team.
     
    #105 Cman69, May 1, 2007
    Last edited: May 1, 2007
  6. 3rdAnd15Draw

    3rdAnd15Draw Well-Known Member

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    His job is to get batters out. He seems incapable of performing that job at present. If he can't get through an inning without some calamity what team exactly is going to give him a spot in the rotation? I just don't see the logic behind this at all.
     
  7. Cman69

    Cman69 The Dark Admin, 2018 BEST Darksider Poster

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    He might be a different pitcher if he's in a different role. His "job" is one he doesn't want. The role the Mets see for him isn't one he sees for himself. Its a recipie for failure. By putting Heilman in, they're setting him up for failure. He's not a middle relief guy. It doesn't matter what Willie and Omar might think, they're not gonna make Heilman into something he's not.

    If you think there's no team out there willing to take a chance on Heilman as a starter, you're wrong. That the Mets can't make a trade for him doesn't mean teams don't want him.

    Do you really want a guy pitching for you when his heart really isn't in it? You want to hand the ball to a guy that probably has to choke down stomach acid everytime he goes into a game because he hates what he's doing?

    Heilman isn't a relief guy. He'll go somewhere else, get his chance to start, and perhaps be the next Ex-Met pitcher to throw a no-hitter after leaving Queens.

    Time to pull the plug on the Heilman Mistake. Give him a start or let him go. Long relief isn't the answer.
     
  8. Beamen

    Beamen New Member

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    That was pretty close to the Marlins giving us a HUGE break
     
  9. statjeff22

    statjeff22 2008 Green Guy "Most Knowledgeable" Award Winner

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    Everyday Endy keeps it alive.

    All Reyes has to do is hit a HR to tie it.
     
  10. Beamen

    Beamen New Member

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    And Endy comes through, as always
     
  11. statjeff22

    statjeff22 2008 Green Guy "Most Knowledgeable" Award Winner

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    Well, this has certainly been a disappointing series so far.
     
  12. Beamen

    Beamen New Member

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    If we get swept, I take the blame... For not starting the series thread.... I'm superstitious like that
     
  13. 3rdAnd15Draw

    3rdAnd15Draw Well-Known Member

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    That's a nice story, unfortunately none of it is actually based in reality. What about the stretches of time over the past 2 seasons where Heilman was a dominant reliever? Was he "not a middle relief guy" then? And what happened over the offseason that made the prospect of being a MR this year so unbearable to Heilman that he decided his only way out was to pitch terribly?
     
  14. statjeff22

    statjeff22 2008 Green Guy "Most Knowledgeable" Award Winner

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    I'll buy that, but then you should also take credit for getting Delgado and Wright hitting. :wink:
     
  15. Cman69

    Cman69 The Dark Admin, 2018 BEST Darksider Poster

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    He's not a relief guy. Just because he had a good stretch doesn't mean that's what he WANTS to do. That he had stretches as a "dominant reliever" only means he has the tools to be a "dominant starter".

    What happened over the offseason was that Heilman realized he had to endure another year as a reliever. He didn't get traded and he'll never start a game for the New York Mets. Its called making the most of a bad situation/biding his time. He's doing the MR job because he HAS TO, not because he wants to. The difference is huge. Professionals are human too.

    I'm not saying he's pitching badly on purpose. I'm saying he's capable of much more as a starter since that's something he WANTS TO DO. He doesn't want to be a middle relief guy but he's getting paid. He's in it for the money and the eventual chance to start someplace else. Its not at all based in some fantasy. He's showing up and working. He doesn't like his job. How hard is that to fathom? Millions of Americans do it everyday.

    If I were Heilman, I'd quit. Give the Mets their money back and move on. Cut some kind of deal for his freedom. As a FA, I'm pretty sure he'd be able to stay in the majors. There are teams out there whose starting pitching is so pathetic that Heilman might become their ace.

    Since the Mets won't give him his opportunity, it may be time for Heilman to force the issue. Heilman had better start thinking about himself and his career first and the Mets second. He's not helping this team by staying around. There are plenty guys that relish the thought of being a setup guy. Heilman isn't one of them.
     
  16. 3rdAnd15Draw

    3rdAnd15Draw Well-Known Member

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    He was inconsistent as a starter and has been inconsistent as a reliever going back to last season. If the Mets thought he had the chops to be a good starter in this league he would be starting. He's lucky he found a place in the pen, most failed starters end up in the minors or out of baseball. If he wants to throw that away for the pipe dream of being a starting pitcher again that's his business, although I do think you're overstating how unhappy Heilman is in his role.

    Sure, he may still want to be a starter but I think even he knows the way he has been pitching it's not going to happen.
     
  17. FrankTheTank

    FrankTheTank New Member

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    I'll take credit for Wright. This morning i woke up and decided he needed some help so i wore my D-Wright shirt for the first time this year, he goes 3-4 with a 2-bagger and a homerun.

    Sadly we lost so i wont be wearing the shirt for a while...
     
  18. Cman69

    Cman69 The Dark Admin, 2018 BEST Darksider Poster

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    These are the same guys that thought Victor Zambrano would be a better starter than Scott Kazmir. (Sorry to bring that up). They also thought Chan Ho Park and his 7.00plus minor league era would be a better option than Heilman as a starter. For whatever reason, they don't want Heilman to start. Why they don't trade him is beyond me. In the end, they're not gonna make him a MR guy no matter what.

    After looking at Park's numbers the other night, can you honestly say Heilman would have been worse?
     
  19. 3rdAnd15Draw

    3rdAnd15Draw Well-Known Member

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    Peterson is the only one that was here when the Kazmir trade went down and despite his now infamous "10 minute" quote regarding Zambrano it's unclear if he was just toeing the company line there or if he actually believed it. Given what he's done with some of the arms Minaya has brought in, I'm willing to place all the blame for the Kazmir debacle with that lackwit Duquette.

    As far as Chan Ho Park being the "better" option, it was just a case of his day to pitch falling on a day when the Mets needed a starter, and quick. All things being equal I'm sure they would've brought up Sosa, but he had just pitched the day before. And they're not going to pull somebody out of the bullpen for a spot start or two in the middle of the season. And yes, while I think Heilman is a much better pitcher then Park, based on the way he's looked in his last few relief apperances I think he could've done worse then Park did(5 of the 7 runs were unearned, official scorer be damned)
     
  20. ShadeTree#55

    ShadeTree#55 Active Member

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    I am giving Turkey one more chance.
     

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