I consider Vilma to have about the value of the 12 pick this year. I think on that pick and lower most NFL teams would choose to take Jon Vilma, as he is after his 3rd season, over a great prospect who hasn't shown anything in the NFL yet. A few teams would pass, but then again a few teams that need a MLB might go as high as the 8 for him. That gives Vilma a value of about 1,200 on the standard NFL draft pick value chart. The 25 pick is worth 720 pts, so between them they are 1920 of the 2600 needed to buy the 2 pick. The Jet's 37 is worth 530, which gets us up to 2450. That's what I'd lay on the table if the Lions came to me with the proposition of trading for the 2 pick. Obviously if the Jets go to the lions instead you can't make that offer, but if they come to us that's what I'd lay out there. Take it or leave it. Future first round picks do not get traded so that you can exercise a first round pick this year. Not even for a once in a generation talent. A few teams have made deals like that and they've all gotten horribly screwed in short order.
Actually the threads author is now a sombody. This thread was linked in a Lions forum frequented by a Lions beat writer, Tom Kowalski. The posters in the forum bantered about this trade and Tom caught wind of it. He called Clayton and Clayton explained that he never mentioned Vilma being involved in the trade. So, Nameth, your kinda important now Eh, I tried to post a link but due to my newb status I was denied.
Maybe, I should just get Clayton's cell phone and give him a buzz.:grin: If you read my intitial post, I never said that John specifically mentioned Vilma. I just figured Vilma must be included here or we just dont have the ammo to move up. and being that Marinelli runs the Tampa 2 and their defense is horrible, it just makes too much sense.
joe thomas i would not be surprised if this was an effort to get joe thomas. many sources have him as a special olineman. they showed in their last draft a desire to build a great offensive line. this game of football was, is, and will always be about winning the battle at the line of scrimmage. on the surface, it appears stupid to trade up for an olineman, but think about the oline the jets would have for the next 10-12 years. consistently winning the battle at the line of scrimmage wins a LOT of games. is it a "sexy" thing to do? no, it is not, BUT it is a football thing to do. OTOH, i do not expect this trade to happen. as someone else in this thread said, this is the nfl and blockbuster trades of this nature just do not happen often.
So was Charles Rogers. So was Tony Mandarich. You can't simply quit on a playmaker middle linebacker like Vilma who had a below average year adjusting to a scheme he'd never played in. Guys who can grasp the game like him with that kind of speed don't grow on trees. This is unsubstantiated message board bunk, and I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere else. The Jets are doing the smart thing by waiting to see how he does this season before they go and re-sign him. The stupid thing would be to go trading him for an unknown. -X-
I don't know what to believe here... but if it were Vilma, Coles, and #25 for #2 I'd take it. The swap of firsts is standard procedure, Vilma (regardless of how much people here love him) doesn't fit our scheme, and Coles is already bitching about camp and is talking about retiring in 3 years. We take Calvin Johnson with the #2 pick to replace Coles, and move Hobson to ILB where he was BORN to play. Either try and sign OLB Porter or draft an OLB with one of our 2nd rounders... the Vilma hole is taken care of. I will probably get ripped for that scenario but it seems pretty realistic to me. Bring in Dillon/Duckett/some other FA to team with Leon at RB. Not a bad situation to me... NT will still need to be adressed though. I'm not expecting to take care of everything this offseason however.
Indeed, but none the less, the legend began with you For the record, and to clear up a few things I read in this thread... 1. Ernie Simms is the Will Linebacker, not a middle. 2. MLB is one of the Lions greatest needs 3. We don't need Coles. Indeed, we are likely to sign Kevin Curtis tomorrow 4. Mike Williams is terrible and will likely be cut soon
I read about a rumor on another Jets website that we're talking Vilma, Coles, #25 to Washington for #6 :rofl: Which makes no sense at all.... All these rumors appear to be b.s.
Everyone talks about how Vilma needs time to adjust to this defense. The thing is that he wasnt any better in week 17 than he was week 1. He never progressed. and Hobson and Thomas had career years in their first time playing in this system. Why wasnt it difficult for them to adjust?
It's probably because those two play OLB and Vilma plays MLB. Vilma relies on the DT in front of him to take on blockers to he can make a play. Vilma is also a smaller faster LB than either of those two therefore he is more affected by the scheme.
Last I checked Thomas and Hobson played behind the very same defensive line that Vilma did and took on the same blockers Vilma did. Face it, while NT is a hole in the defense, certain guys found ways to make plays (Hobson, Thomas) while Vilma didn't. EDIT- And I like Vilma as much as the next guy, only difference is that I've accepted the reality of Vilma not fitting in this scheme.
Hell, even Barton made a bigger impact than Vilma did. As much as I like the guy for being such a class act, he really struggled last year compared to what he used to be. All the other LBs seemed to adjust and flourish in the system, while Vilma noticeably regressed.
And that's why his name has been linked to trade rumors all off season. Nobody knows if his invisibility last year was just adjusting to the system or whether the 3-4 is just a very bad fit for him. I like him and I think he's a solid player but he's definitely not somebody that I would say scrap the 3-4 for. When a defensively oriented coach takes over at the start of a long run there are always big changes in defensive personnel that accompany that take over. Mike Timlin is in in Pittsburgh and Joey Porter is out. There will be others on the outs too after next season. I think it's 85/15 Vilma is back at this point but I would not be at all shocked if he goes in a trade for real value. Giving him away is not going to happen but getting something real for him might.
I will try to make it easier for most of you. I think the Raiders are seriously looking around for a veteran QB. In which case, they will not pick Russell, but trade Moss, and pick Johnson, thus leaving only Peterson available at number 2!! Unfortunately, I have a feeling that it is Peterson who will not pan out in the NFL, not Johnson.
If we use the #2 to get Calvin Johnson, we must then make sure to draft Reggie Ball! Reggie Ball has a great 'arm' and can make 'all the throws'. He is the best college qb ever and we need a strong arm to get the ball to Calvin Johnson deep! We can't have Calvin Johnson's great talent wasted with a 'noodle armed' Qb like pennington! The Jets need to get Balls! Reggie Ball is a good start!
