No one is "happy" to trade him. It's much easier to find a good ILB for the 3-4 than it is to find a RB the caliber of Peterson. It's a trade that definitely has to be considered.
if they trade vilma i will choke mangini and all the guys in our front office with my bare hands (obviously)
I really don't see what the big problem with trading Vilma is...he just doesn't fit the system. Lets say this trade does happen (Vilma + #25 for #2), hopefully they'd go out and sign Porter push Hobson into the middle, along side Barton and Thomas. Hobson and Barton are both much better fits at ILB than Vilma, and Porter is MUCH MUCH better and OLB than Hobson. So in effect, if Porter is signed, the LB core actually improves. Then, say they sign one of Duckett/Henry/Dillon to platoon with Washington in the backfield, they would be free to grab Johnson at #2. Coles/Cotchery/Johnson would instantly become the most deadly threesome in the entire NFL, and lets face it, Coles is no spring chicken. Chances are he'll be either cut or retired in another two or three years. Then, if such a scenario played out, in the second round, they could draft a CB and NT, and then call it a day, coming out INFINATELY better than they were to begin
I wouldnt worry too much, because if there is one FO in the NFL that can be taken, it would be the Lions FO....this has the potential to be a hit and run, and we could be getting away with murder... Vilma stays, Coles stays...somehow jets get 2nd overall...
I say if we can trade #25/Vilma for #2 we do it.. draft Peterson and use our 2 2nds to get back into the first round and get Posluszny. According to the value chart our 2 seconds could get us to pick #20 which could be a good spot to either land Carriker, Moss, or Puz. That way Puz can replace Vilma in the middle. Or if we can grab Porter we can fill one our biggest holes at DE with carriker or moss. Either way we can fill 2 big holes with 2 potential star players. I do love Vilma and i think he can adjust but if he doesnt fit he doesnt fit and we might as well move on.
I'm actually on the fence. If Mangini really feels as though Vilmas a bad fit for the system and he thinks he can get a player in the future thats universally regarded as the best at his position...especially a skill position like WR...hmm. I don't know I mean I like Vilma alot I think if you put a better line in front of him he'll be free to do alot of damage.
there is no way coles or vilma goes in any deal. its absurd. think logically.. we just sign cotchery to an extension, coles is loved by mangini not to mention calvin johnson as amazing as he is designed for the long ball. hes not a catch and juke kind of player like cotchery and coles are..pennington is going to throw the long ball? also in regards to vilma, the guy has taught rhodes how to be a great player with all the study time he does with him, he is the leader in the locker room and he likes mangini, you think he'd let that go..come on! if we moved up it would be more along the lines of justin miller or barrett paired with barton or hobson and the first round pick, maybe mccareins if the deal happens before march 7th and we would only get the first pick, grab peterson and call it a day
If the Jets move up, I doubt: A. The deal includes Coles, and B. They're moving up for CJ. They'd be moving up for Peterson. There's also no chance in hell, no matter how dumb Millen and the Lions are, of getting the #2 overall pick by packaging guys like Miller or Barrett, Barton or Hobson, and the #25.
For those who dont know much about Calvin Johnson here are some scouting reports.......these were written before his great 4.35 40 at the combine Scouting Report Quote: Positives: Johnson is a physical marvel at wide receiver. He stands tall at 6'5" and has a tremendous wingspan. He is reported to have a 45" vertical jump and sub-4.5 speed in the 40-yard dash. Johnson is a nightmare for opposing defensive backs. But what is perhaps most impressive about Johnson, despite of his out-of-this-world physical attributes, is his work ethic. He is humble and does not like to draw attention to himself after catching a touchdown. It is very rare to ever see him drop a pass, be it a diving catch along the sidelines or a jump ball. Negatives: could make the case that Johnson does not have the necessary speed to be a standout wide receiver at the next level. Even though he is very fast for his 6'5", 235 lb frame, he does not have blazing speed to run by defensive backs. Most of his catches come from his length and his amazingly strong hands. However, one could make the case that Georgia Tech's lack of a true pocket quarterback with a powerful arm has limited Johnson's productivity. With Johnson's physical attributes, he will no doubt be a top-three selection in the NFL draft. If he comes out as a junior, his draft stock shouldn't change; he will always be at or near the top in the draft because he is the best wide receiver in the nation. He can make big plays, and is a weapon in the red zone with his great leaping ability. Johnson is a terror to match up against and any NFL team would love to have his services Another Scouting Report Quote: From a physical standpoint, Johnson is a freak. Huge body with giant hands, and blazing speed. One thing that really stands out, for a player as young as Johnson, and as big as he is, is his agility and body control. He runs nice crisp routes, and plays very light on his feet, and when he has to, can jump through the roof, and get the ball out of the air. His size and speed make him an automatic mismatch for any defender, and the number of defensive holding and pass interference penalties he draws show that. Truly a rare talent at the position. Also great after the catch, with surprising speed. Other than needing more experience, there's really nothing to haggle about Johnson's game. Being as big as he is, some will question if he can play WR in the NFL, and he does need to keep improving the little details of his game, like in his routes, especially short runs, and making sure to minimize the number of body catches be makes, but it's hard to be too critical of Johnson's potential, given he's only a junior. Best wide out, in a great wide out draft class. The one thing to track on Johnson is, will Ga. Tech keep getting him the football. He's the best playmaker at any position in the country, and really has a chance to put himself on an elite level, among his peers Another Scouting Report Quote: Positives: Johnson is simply an incredible prospect at the wide receiver position. He's Larry Fitzgerald, only faster and, if you can believe it, better in all fields. Has the rare ability among WRs to make an entire offense better, a skill usually only seen in QBs and some RBs. Johnson possesses the softest hands I have ever seen on a big, fast receiver. And oh my is he fast and big. He will dominate many corners in the NFL with his size alone, and his speed and incredible vertical leap (rumored to be north of 47”) will only make life harder for them. Negatives: Not many. His downfield blocking leaves something to be desired, but so does the downfield blocking of most receivers. Sometimes loses his concentration, but that rarely happens outside of his team having a big lead. Overview: Johnson could possibly be the single-best prospect in several years, not just as at WR but among all draft prospects period. Yes, better than Reggie Bush. Yes, better than Vince Young. Johnson has a very realistic shot at being taken #1 overall, and it will be simply shocking if he slips out of the top three. Another Scouting Report
how come everyone is fixated on peterson and johnson? the obvious guy to get is Alan Branch! massive guy that's a great fit at NT. we can move dewayne to the outside and end up with a fast pass rush. heck, we can sign banta-cain to replace vilma if necessary. we'd be very close to a NE-style defense at that point. our strong point suddenly becomes our front 7. i say #25, vilma for #2, trade down from #2 to like #5-8 and pick up a second, sign banta-cain and draft alan branch. add a linebacker with one of the seconds, an OT with another second, an LB with the third one we pick up and we'd pretty much have a dream off-season from my perspective.
I'd rather see them spend FA cash on a DT. Honestly, what the hell, its only money and they can just keep raising my ticket prices. Seriously, I'd rather take a chance in the FA market on a proven DT/DE than take one in the first round. Trade up for the stud RB who (barring injury) will have an immediate impact on our offense otherwise hold tight and see who falls. PS: On a team filled with average-at-best physical talent a Coles and a Vilma will not be going anywhere. No way in frackin' hell.
Thus far people are sticking primarly with Peterson and Johnson as the targets (some have mentioned Quinn and Joe Thomas). However there are 2 defensive players that are worth a look at that spot in Alan Branch and Jamal Anderson, both of which would look very good on our defense and both fill needs. As far as trading both Vilma and Coles, not a chance in hell. I think the only way that Vilma is tradeable is if We sign Porter and move Hobson inside. I love Jonathan Vilma and personally I would never want to trade him, however I think Barton and Hobson are better suited for ILB in this defense and Vilma is nearing the end of his rookie contract (he will command a large contract in FA or before). Hobson and Bartonon the inside with Thomas and Porter (or a top rookie) on the outside, I think our LB core would actually be stronger than last years (though we would definitly need a pass rushing OLB to develop as Porter will already be 30). Another option I can see with Detriot is something involving Robertson and Rogers, as Robertson is a better fit for the Tampa style cover 2 that Detroit will be playing and Rogers is a better fit a NT in our 3-4. From what I've heard in sounds like teams are asking the Jets about Vilma, that the Jets are not shopping Vilma. If this is the case the Jets may get the better end of the deal. Though I do not want to trade Vilma, a deal I personally could live with it Robertson, Vilma, and #25 for Rogers and #2. Our hole at NT is filled without having to draft anyone and we have the #2 pick which we could use on Peterson (I am against this, as I strongly think he could be a major bust) or we could trade down to say... around pick #9 (Yes I know its the Dolphins). Thus giving the Dolphins Brady Quinn and the Jets their choice of Adam Carricker, Marshawn Lynch, Gaines Adams, Levi Brown, Jarvis Moss, Leon Hall, Chris Houston, and possibly Alan Branch as well as atleast a 2nd round pick from the Dolphins (which they will likely have 2 due to Wes Welcher). Thus giving us 3 picks in round 2 (which is where the value is in this draft), an elite NT in Rogers, and a top player at the #9 spot. I can't beleive I just typed all this, very Madden esque...yet plausable.
The only thing is, I don't think you trade up and give up all that we will need to give up to move to #2 overall for a DT or a DE. I really think the only reason for this would be Peterson IMO
I wouldn't mind either trade. Jonathan Vilma in the 34 will never be anything but mediocre and Laveranues Coles' mouth is eventually going to get him into trouble here. Either way we'd be adding a #1 WR who has the size and speed of Randy Moss without the attitude and mouth and I believe is more skilled in ways as well or we'd be adding perhaps the next great NFL running back in Adrian Peterson. If this trade does get done, Vilma will definitely be gone and it will be either Peterson or Johnson depending on if Coles is shipped as well.
