smack man aka michael irvin kind of had it made when he was on the cowboys a good qb a good running back a good fullback a good tight end your number two and three receivers were good. so with that being said he wasnt really the play maker some people are play makers some have play maker thrusted upon them. There was truely no pressure for him to perform and be like my team needs me. as for keyshawn despite my personal feelings for him i think he should make it into the HOF.
Guys like Eddie George, Corey Dillon, and Keyshawn Johnson who had flashing moments of greatness simply won't make the Hall of Fame. Ditto on Herman Moore, whose career was cut short by injuries. Irvin was a great player on a great team. He was still playing at a high level when he suffered his career ending injury. You can't say for sure, but he probably had at least 2 more good seasons left in him and a couple of average ones. People are pointing to Monk's big stats that he compiled over the course of a long career, but there's absolutely nothing aside from 3 Hall caliber seasons (less than 20 percent of his career) to warrant any kind of candidacy for him. You have to measure these guys against their peers. Irvin is an easy in. Justifiably, he should not have been first ballot, and he wasn't, but he deserved it. I think 5 Pro Bowls is a good place to start. -X-
Think about this, when Toon and Walker were healthy would Keyshawn have even seen the field other than as a slot reciever? I say he wouldn't. He is no HOF WR especially if you look at the quality of the WR today and take into account that only 1,2 or 3 of them will be considered HOF worthy. He is far from the top guys.
Key is a very good possession WR not in the same class as Toon either in possession of the ball or the ability to take it deep. Walker was a game breaker who averaged 19 yards per catch. I don't disagree that Key is better but if you have Toon on one side, I prefer Walker on the other side to Key. On top of that Key is a disruptive force, they guy has effectively been cast out from 3 teams. That says something about him.
Walker was a straight line deep threat, he wasn't a great route runner, had poor hands and wasn't a good blocker. The only area Wesley beats him in is as a deep threat but there's alot more to being a good WR than running straight down the field. look at key's #s compared to Toon, al only had 2 years w/ 80+ recs, key has had 3 including a 100+ year. Al only had 3 years w/ 70+ recs while Key has 9. Al never had double digit TDs and only 2 times did he have more than 5, Key had 10 fir us in '98 and 5 times has had more than 5. Al only had 2 1,000 yd seasons while Key has 4. You say Al was more of a deep threat which I believe as well BUT the #s don't show that as Al averaged 12.8 per rec while key averages 13 yds per rec. Al is one of my favorite Jets of all-time and I believe if he didn't get all thsoe concussions he was on his way to a HOF type career but he did and that has to factor into things when comparing careers.
OK...I'll chime in on this. My personal opinion is that the HOF should be reserved for great players. Greatness is measured by more than statistics. Keyshawn Johnson was never a difference maker in games. Michael Irvin is an interesting case. While Aikman and Smith were more largely responsible for the Cowboys success, Irvin was an integral part of the Cowboys success. The "triplets" were "Aikman, Smith and Irvin"....not "Aikman, Smith and to a lesser extent Irvin". In my opinion he deserves to get in. Back to my original statement about the HOF. It should be only for great players. Players that were feared week-in and week-out. Players that were recognized across the country as being great (not just in their home towns). However, there should be an honorable mention section of the HOF. This would be for guys that deserve being in the convesation, but are not true HOFers. Guys like Monk, KJ and unfortunatley Martin belong in this category. And for what it is worth Klecko should be a HOFer.
No doubt Keyshawn has had a better career than Toon. I loved Maynard and Sauer and Sauer was better than Key in almost every facet of the game except down field blocking. Simply put Toon was the best WR in Jets history and he and Namath were the two greatest Athletes to ever wear the Jets uniform.
Me too of all the bad luck this team has had over the years, not seeing Al Toon perform healthy for a reasonable period of time is the worst of it. The guy was an off the chart talent.
It is amazing how many people forget just how good Wesley Walker was. Where Walker differentiates himself from most Jet players (you could include running backs in this as well) is that he had a nose for the end zone. The man had 71 career touchdowns. If injuries hadn't been a recurring problem (Walker only played four full 16 game seasons) for Walker he would have had a shot at the HOF. I am probably one of Keyshawn's biggest fans on this message board but to say that Key is much better than Wesley Walker is a joke. Herre is some more info on Walker: He was noted for his great speed, averaging over 20 yards per reception many seasons (his career average was 19 yards per reception). At the time of his retirement, he was second in Jets all-time receiving yardage. yards. Legally blind in one eye, Walker overcame this handicap to become one of the Jets all-time great receivers. He led the league in receiving yards in 1978, and was elected to the Pro Bowl twice, in 1978 and 1982, he was named the New York Jets MVP in 1978. In the 1982 NFL Playoffs, Walker was one of the best gamebreakers in the game, in the 2 postseason games, he caught 15 passes for 314 yards and 2 touchdowns, as the Jets first beat the Cincinnati Bengals and one week later beat the Los Angeles Raiders, both on the road. His best reception season came in 1983 when he caught 61 receptions, and in 1986 he had a career best 12 receiving touchdowns, four of them occurred in Week 3, as he caught a game-winning touchdown from Jets quarterback Ken O' Brien in overtime as the Jets beat Dan Marino and the Miami Dolphins in a wild shootout game 51-45. When he retired, he had caught 438 receptions for 8306 yards and 71 touchdowns. Seasons among the league's top 10 Receiving yards: 1978-1, 1982-8 Receiving TDs: 1978-8t, 1981-4t, 1982-4t, 1986-2, 1988-9t Rush/Receive TDs: 1986-7t Among the league's all-time top 50 Receiving TDs: 26t
I think it's amazing how overrated Wesley was by Jet fans. he was fast, he ran straight they threw it to him. he should have a great average. At the time of his retirement only 2 excellent Jets WRs had completed their careers and one, Sauer, retired early. wes ley played 13 seasons, sauer just 6. that hurts your argument, those aren't great #s. for a deep threat he had only 2 seasons top 10 in rec yards w/ one of them being the strike shortened '82 season. His TD #s were impressive but that was it. He had more than 50 recs ONCE and had 1,000 yds receiving just twice in a 13 year career. decent player but vastly overrated by Jet fans and not nearly as good as Keyshawn or Toon or Suaer or maynard or Coles.
I don't know, junc, I think you're selling Walker short. Early in his career he had a problem holding on to the ball, but he became a force both for Todd and O'Brien. He was the classic speed WR, but he did it well and made a bunch of big catches for us throughout our resurgance in the early 80s and on into the O'Brien years.
Maynard and Sauer I can't speak for, Toon I agree was more talented but did less in his career. Keyshawn was a different type of WR, he didn't break games open with his speed, he was more of a Coles but bigger and better. Coles I really like, might get his jersey, actually, but I would not put him ahead of Wesley Walker, Toon or Keyshawn. We haven't had as good a speed WR as Walker since Walker. Dedric Ward was a #3 guy, so was Santana Moss when we had him, our good WRs have mostly been the big posession WR since Walker.
Santana moss is a better WR than Wesley Walker. Santana already has as many 1,000 yd seasons as Wesley and he's only been around 6 seasons 1 of which he missed 90% of.
I don't ever remember Moss being anywhere near the factor Walker was. Certainly not with the Jets, he barely cracked the lineup. The league is more pass friendly now than it was when Walker played, too. I like Moss and he's had his moments, some as a PR, but he has to hang around and produce a while before I'd put him ahead of Walker.
Moss was great in 2003 for us, unfortunately we lost some key players and had Chad hurt half the year. In 2004 he came up w/ numerous big plays including the bomb against SD and the PR at Pitt in the playoffs. In 2005 Santana had a year Wesley could only dream of.
Wesley Walker was a better WR then Santana Moss. Numbers are far up these days based on different rules and improved offenses. Walker was a very bigger game breaker and very good in the big game !!!
I can't say I know Washington's offense that well, but Walker shared the ball with Toon, and earlier Lam Jones, plus we threw to Shuler and Barkum a lot in those days. Throw in the different eras and I don't know that you can use numbers to compare the two. Just from a Jets perspective, I've never even thought of Moss in Walker's class, but Moss isn't finished yet, either.
