The Rams didn’t finish above .500 for 10 seasons from 2005-2016 and have been perennial contenders for a decade after switching leadership. The 49ers went 8 seasons from 2003-2010 and went to the conference title game in 2011. The Commanders and Lions had some sporadic playoff appearances from the mid 90s until the last couple years but both appear to be turned around although I’m skeptical of the Commanders. The Browns missed the playoffs for 17 seasons from 2003 to 2020 and then made it twice in four years even though they’re a mess again. Bengals playoff drought 1991-2004 although Marvin Lewis did take a couple years to get them into the playoffs. Seahawks 1989-1998 and into the playoffs as soon as Holmgren got there although I try not to go this far back. Titans 2009-2016 although Mularkey was there a couple years before he got them there. Buccaneers 2008-2020. Arians was there for one year before they won the SB/went back to the playoffs but somewhat anecdotal because they got the Brady migration. Broncos went 7 years before Payton got there. One year of 8-9 and then back to back playoff appearances. I mean it’s not that hard to find examples. This isn’t the MLB or NHL where rebuilds can be five year projects. The salary cap, free agency and the draft are built to fix teams quickly if you do it the right way. Where do you see a coach stick for 3-4 years with losing records not pushing towards .500 and eventually turn it around? Let’s see your examples.
I did say 7-10 or 8-9 in Year 2 which to me is progress and pushing towards .500. Heading to the Garden for the Johnnies-UConn game soon so quick response and I'm high but will come back to this later.
It is risky for sure. I thought he spoke to it in a pretty constructive and insightful way without throwing anybody under the bus. What I got from it is more the impact of the culture of continual losing than the fault of any one person
He changed the culture while he was here. That's all he could do. Woody still owns the team. There is no "fixing", until he is gone.
We got a lot of new coaches coming in. Normally that creates a lot of growing pains but it is also a good situation for changing a culture. We'll have to see what happens.
At this point a team move like the Browns did to become the Ravens would be well--I'm thinking Montreal or Toronto.
The snake lives on until the head is removed. It will continue to be various levels of a cancer until Woody is gone.
I get all that, but winning is what changes culture. You go down 0-4, 0-5, 1-6, it won't matter what players you have. It's not the other way around. Players tried really hard early, you could see it. It's not just working hard though, but also about being smart strategically, and we were outmatched schematically. Doesn't matter if they had more guy that won before. Maybe later on less effort was there, but by that time the season was effectively over anyway. Glenn needs to put players in position to win, and get Ws early, while there is still hope in a season, and keep that going, then the culture would change. Not the other way around.
True, but the players need to be talented enough, and bring the right attitude to buy into good culture, to win. I don't buy the level of which coaches are blamed in the nfl sometimes, especially the jets. You need players that are talented and have the right attitude to win. If you don't it doesn't matter if you have Don Shula. He may win a game or 2 more, but you're not going anywhere. It's all important.
I think the attitude was there to win. And I know we argued on that, but I thought the players were there too to do better than the worst start by any coach in Jets history. I am not even talking about last 5 games. We should not have been effectively eliminated from the play-offs in September. So, yes what you are saying matters, but I thought it was all there early, aside from another things that matters: Xs and Os, strategy, consistently creative designs and schemes. That part was missing, and that was #1 reason for failure IMO. Then later on once we started losing a lot, shit hit the fan and other things you speak of also took place. But again, by then, it didn't matter all that much. Winning meaningful games is what builds culture, and early on we were missing the Xs and Os coaching aspect that was necessary, the whole season then became meaningless and things spiraled out of control. All of both you and I said matters.
Early in my career I worked on re-engineering corporations, i.e., functional changes that impacted culture. Culture is difficult to change but it can be done with the respective support of stakeholders, i.e., CEO, Board, etc. It seems to me that most of the players the Jets have need to be removed so they can implement the changes they need.... as others stated, bring in leaders who voice the same mantra. They seem to have support of Woody so that matters...but the dude better allow them to execute whatever plan is or they have another Chit show, For example, we took a company that had a DSO (Days Sales Outstanding = cash in the door) of 120+ days to under 30 days. We did it by understanding the vertical and horiziontial operational relationships to profitability, "all" personnel, systems, etc. and then changing the things that need to be changed.... It was really hard but extremely satisfying when the BOD and CEO handed us a suginificant bonus.... I hope for all our sakes that AG really can achieve the changes need to make this team 1) competitive and 2) a winner. However, as always, as SOJ, I hope for the best but expect the worst.
You can find coaches who stick around for a long time with losing records, but - shocker - they are all on these terrible franchises. Your core point is exactly right. The expectation should be that a team can get to average or decent within 1-2 years. You don't need a franchise QB for that, you just need a good team, good coaching, discipline, and somebody who can play the position representatively. All of these are available. This bunk of "rebuilds take a long time" is a myth that originally baseball owners but now all sports owners have pushed on the fans to get them to keep buying tickets for bad teams while they bumble around and pocket money.
Why? Was there something wrong with the turf in Metlife that disproportionately affected only Jets players? Giants players seemed OK, and certainly the Jets opponents had no difficulty with the turf. Drake Maye was giggling his way up and down the turf for a 99 QBR. God knows they seem to be doing a manageable job with marketing - they are making money hand over fist with a terrible product. I haven't been to Metlife in some years - is the game production terrible? Wifi? Commentators? Food? Beer? It's players and coaches. That's it. Driven from the head, which means the HC and GM (and yes the owner, but insofar as finding the right HC and GM and writing checks, that's all I want).
This is the type of thing that needs to be said by the players.. coaches.. The stink has to go. Either cut the fucking cancer out or let this team die already. One or the other.
I understand your point as well. I was simply driving home the need to clear the rot in the building. Obviously, I may have gone overboard mentioning the grounds keepers and cafeteria staff but you got my point, I hope. Hymie Elhai. 26 years with the organization in the FO. Why? WHY is this guy still here? When I talk about the ROT going from the top down why is this guy still employed? Brian Friedman. 16 years with the organization in the FO. Why? Eric Gelfand. 10 years. Why? Don't care if he's marketing. He's an E.VP of the New York Jets... Andy Lee. 20 years in various capacities but, in reading the club website, says he's had his hands all over the team in various capacities, that aren't exclusively legal capacities. ALL these people are here for 10 years + yet the PRODUCT on the field remains the same. Different HC's, GM's, players coming in and out. You mean to tell me that a couple of those guys have had NO input into the makeup of the team, it's leadership etc.? I mean, if people believe the "rot" extends only up to Aaron Glenn what is the excuse for all those other coaches that have come before? It shows Mougey as above ALL of this. Unless, like everything else NY Jets, even that is mis-represented and nothing more than digital letters on a web page. There's a real problem in this "company." Yeah, we all know Johnson is MOST of it but is he ALL of it? I don't know. Something has to give here. Maybe it's not the custodians and day to day office folk but something, in that building, stinks and it survives regardless of all the coaching and player changes. If it truly IS ALL Johnson then we may as well throw our fandom in the trash or accept it because, short of a minor miracle, that is never going to change. Look at Washington, the most prime recent example I can think of. Get new ownership and the road back to respectability began. Had a great first year, with Daniels and now, instead of talking about meddling ownership it's discussion about injuries hurt their season vs. the insane shit Snyder used to pull all season long. Look at the Browns! Lost the team to Baltimore and backfilled with an insane owner and they are now the "Jets" of the mid-west. The Raiders, Batshit crazy ownership and it's been a constant struggle. I liken their handling of Rich Bisaccia comparable to the Vikings throwing Darnold out with yesterday's trash. That was on ownership. I'm rambling now... Something has to give here.
Oh the rot extends WAY higher than just AG, for sure. Mostly Woody as he has final say. Those others, who knows? We don’t know what they do. They may have some input on football decisions, either explicitly (say someone like Hume, who I think is the President, may have some input when it comes to financials and stuff), or some may have some kind of hidden or implicit influence just by having Woody’s ear. Who knows really… But if we’re not there in the building and don’t have any real idea what their roles are, it’s hard to say.
Not directing this to you individually but rather to this topic, you get all the praise for winning when you're part of a team and you get all the blame for losing when you're part of a team. Being on the business end of a football team is no different. There is literally no valid reason why any of these guys are still employed by the NY Jets franchise if they've been here for this entire 15 year shitshow. It's a culture thing and you clean house completely. This is one of the biggest reasons why the Jets are a fucking disgrace for 15 years now. You don't even keep the same color scheme or old design in the building when you start new. You purge completely. If I read this guy Hymie's name one more time I'm gonna drive over there right now and put a hit on his ass. You get rid of everyone in the building. This shit is beyond infuriating. Woody Johnson still hasn't grasped this very basic concept of a cultural rebirth.
