We have the framework in place on offense. This is not Sam situation. We have resigned WR1, spent high second on TE1, two high 1st on OTs, high second on a C. Spent a high second on a RB, whom we can retain. Plus there is lots of CAP room. If you cannot build around a QB with this type of investment, you are in the wrong business. We are not going to trade ALL our picks for a QB. But what if we can give the Colts pick and a second rounder next year? We still have a second rounder this year and then 3 firsts next year. We have to be prudent, sure, but we cannot cheap out either on a QB and we need to get the guy we want. Yes there is a risk, but until we get one, it does not matter what we do with the rest of the roster. I have seen this movie play out again and again and again.
Glenn doesn't have a future if he doesn't get a QB so why should he care about the future? They will get one this year whether we like it or not.
How cheap do you think trading up in the top 10 is? I was waiting until after we won this week for people to go back to, "well we're really only a few players away".
It should really be the GMs decision but, yeah. Your probably right. And I have nothing against getting a QB this year. Just don't trade up for one, or use a top 5 pick.
I try not to go into hypotheticals for this kind of thing. Everyone in the league knows what the Jets are now armed with as far as picks go. No way they move up without coughing up 2 first round picks. A little clarity here...when I say 2 first round picks I do NOT include what ever pick they are sitting at. Just drives me NUTS when some refer to "two" first round picks and they count the one they are sitting at and another. So, having said that, I suspect any trade up will cost the colts pick this year and one of the #1's from 2027.
I hate it when people say 2 firsts too when one is just a pick swap. If you use that verbiage they should say we traded 1 first and a pick swap. If we pick top 5 I think going from say 4 to 1 would cost a first, a second and a pick swap which I would be fine with if they like the kid whoever it is. Have to pay to play in this league.
@ouchy @mezzavo That's exactly the scenario Miller from ESPN proposed, which does not seem crazy to me. If Moore continues to impress I would do it for him. We would still have 3 1st next year and two seconds this year. Now, there is more to evaluate still, does Moore even come out, is Sellers in, measurements, interviews, etc... But I do think Moore may be worth it, pending him playing on the same level in the play-offs. Of course it would be great to grab a QB with our own pick without giving up any assets, but I just don't know if we will be in position to do so. I do believe the Browns and the Raiders want a QB, and maybe even the Saints too.
To parrot @ouchy, do you think it's going to be that cheap? Regardless, I can, with confidence, say Mendoza is definitely not worth it. Wish I knew about Moore but people seem to be much higher on his ceiling than Mendoza. But therein sits the major problem, a "ceiling." This means this kid is going to have to be developed and is not Pro ready right now. Can NY Jets fans WAIT that long? They couldn't on Darnold and every MVP he is in the running for will pick at Jets fans until they day they die or he stops playing. If Darnold ends up with a HoF career there are Jets fans that will talk about that for 50 years. The NY market has next to zero patience which is why I liken to bringing in QB's who either have experience or are so good, coming out of college, that it's beyond debate. So, basially, not a realistic expectation. So, having said that, a QB must be found I just want them to spend zero, other than their actual picks, to get one. Crossing my fingers that one of the QB's falls but not going to lose sleep on it.
The price will depend on where our and Colts pick ends up. If the Colts lose out and give us top 15 pick, and we end up picking #4, maybe all it will take is the Colts pick and perhaps slight change to move up 2-3 spots. I think at this point I do agree with you that giving up this package for Mendoza is a bit much. It might change as we move forward, but as of this moment I would only give major package for Moore, and even then there is risk, because he only has 17 career starts. However, the season is not over yet. What he ends up playing 3 more games and looks great like he has recently? That's 20 starts, which is not amazing, but still something to hang your hat on. So I am rooting very hard for him. Moore to me checks most boxes. Huge upside, good arm, accuracy, quick processing, fast time to throw, size, athleticism, you name it... And the fact he is doing what he is doing while 2-3 years younger than Mendoza and Simpson. I do think they are going to win the next game (21 point favorites), and then should be very interesting to watch the QF. Things are fluid now. Much more evaluation to be made, draft order, who comes out, how they look at the most important stage, team visits, etc... But gun to my head right now, I am trading up for Moore as #1 overall.
To get that QB you want you're gonna have to trade a lot of picks, way more picks than it is worth. See 49ers offer to us for Wilson (sigh) an offer that the Dolphins then snapped their hands off for They traded 3 1sts and a 3rd to move up from 12 to 3; that QB is no longer there, despite Shanahan. That is way too much for the Jets to give up, the Raiders will surely be taking one after Smith's shitty season. Moore isn't a guarantee to come out and Arizona will surely be looking at a QB and they are level with us atm 1+ win can be very damaging for your scenario of trading up now.
How many trade ups to the top 5 do you think the team trading up have won though? RG3? Bryce Young? Travis Hunter? Ricky Williams? Ryan Leaf? You can maybe make a case Will Anderson was worth it but the Texans had a stockpile of picks from the Watson trade and took their QB a pick before. Goff and Wentz would be interesting studies. Both teams won a SB but not with that QB under center. Both got second contracts but neither played any further for the team than what their rookie year would indicate. I know you reference Mahomes, Allen and Lamar but those are just not the same scenarios. None of them involved a trade up of the magnitude you’re talking about. The Bills gave up two second rounders. The Chiefs gave up an additional first and a third to move up from 22 to 10. The Ravens gave up a second and a 4th round pick swap. They were also all playoff teams the year before they did it.
Plus we, the Jets, have never had success trading up for a QB. Never. And it always puts us behind the eight ball. We are known for blowing lots of high picks on players not worth it. We always have been. IMO what @Borat wants to do is what we might need to do in 2027. But we're not there yet. There is a time to move and perhaps do what @Borat is suggesting, but its not this draft, its the next one. We don't just want a QB, we want the best roster possible - great core, great starters, solid depth - a SB contender. We have a lot of picks but to do that, we are going to need even more - partly because we're the Jets and our history says so. Here is what we do: -Trade down our top 10 pick for the needed assets - and be willing to take the assets the following draft, which can deliver even more value (instead of asking for picks this draft give us higher/more picks next year - that type of deal). Afterall, we need to build the best roster possible and have 2 drafts to do it. -Use all of our high picks this draft on core players, amongst them, one rational QB choice without trading up. The focus should be linemen on both sides of the ball, and a BPA, or however the board lines up, but linemen on both sides should still be the priority. Now we have a good start on a great core, and a promising QB swing. -If the QB shows in season 1 he is not the guy, now we have the assets to do what Borat wants, and have the assets to still be flexible and control the draft (meaning get everyone, including QB if necessary, while managing the consequences of trading up). If needed, we now have two QB swings while still bringing in enough talent to become a SB team, and to properly develop a young QB. We cant get married to a top 5 QB pick this year - we aren't good enough. Its trying to take shortcuts and would derail us - partly because we have shown we cant do it this way. Plus, don't be fooled, we don't have enough ammo to turn our roster into a SB team if we immediately start trading high picks. I see most of the players on our current roster as cuts or solid backups, including much of our o-line which is average, but not elite. These are guys that can step in and hold the fort if your elite guy goes down. Here is the hard truth, you basically need at least 7 quality linemen to be a top 5 team in this league- with at least one all pro. The same for our D-line, which needs practically every position. I love JJ, but I don't think he is the impact stud we wanted. Part of our problem here is we got ripped off on the Q deal. You don't trade DTs like him, and if you do its for multiple firsts. He was an important core player and all pro DTs are hard as hell to get. Heck, we got 2 fists and a 3rd for a strong safety, and only a 1st and 2nd for an all pro DT - which will now require a high first round pick to replace (and who remembers our struggles finding a quality DT). The Cowboys 1st wont deliver a pick high enough to replace him. It was a dumb trade. Great defenses have two monsters in the middle. We had one - now we need 2 - which is two high firsts or a major payout for a merc, which are still hard to find. Great DTs have the equivalent value of great QBs, for the defense. Teams don't trade great DTs - except for us. We can get all the assets we need to build a contender, and we need a lot, but if we start giving them away when we aren't even sure what we are, whats the definition of insanity again? I want a GM with a master plan. I don't want to go back to cobbling. Great QBs don't win SBs - deep rosters do. You don't trade picks for players in year 1. You start building, evaluate what you got while continuing to increase assets, and then in year two you can clearly see what we are and have the insurance to take chances, steal the draft and walk away with a future SB champ. Dont get suckered into the easy path. There is no easy path. There is the lucky path, which we never get, and the right path. Lets take the right path for the first time in 25 years.
Q was declining here and he’s right at the age when production drops off a cliff for defensive tackles. Maybe a year or so away. It was the right move. He was not playing like an All-Pro. I also don’t really agree that great defenses have monsters in the middle. The Texans, Browns, Chargers, Broncos, and Packers defenses are all driven by the edge players. Those are the top 5 by yardage in the league this year. The Seahawks, Eagles and Patriots are driven by the big guys in the front and good defenses. 2/3 run a 3-4 defense though.
The idea that Q was about washed is such bull. Most quality DTs go into their 30s. Only serious injuries cause any real decline. In 3 games with the Cowboys he surpassed his stats in 8 games with the Jets - because he has talent around him. With us handling him was was easy - double Q because he is the only threat. Very few edges, like 3 in the entire league, can dominate without great DTs in the middle. The Texans, Chargers, and Broncos all have top 10 DT rotations. Yeah there's Miles Garret, but that is a rare outlier. You can discount the importance of DT to a great defense, but we will disagree.
I do agree with you on the importance of the position and even on Quinnen Williams the player. He is a beast, doesn't look to be slowing down anytime soon, and interior DL is vital. But you have to consider that Williams did request to be traded. Williams was putting this front office in a tough spot, obviously disgruntled so a trade was going to happen eventually no matter what. If they waited and let that relationship get even worse, and he perfomed poorly, or even got hurt the rest of the season, his trade value would've plummeted.
I didn’t say he was about washed. I said he was about to decline and quite frankly he’s been declining since his 2022 AP peak season. Still a good player and pro-bowler. You’re doing chicken or the egg with that. Are the edges helping the defensive tackles or vice versa? Now it’s a “top ten defensive tackles” rotation which is moving the goal posts off what you just said. We definitely can use another good defensive tackle. I don’t think it’s as hard to find as you think though. Broncos DJ Jones (6th round selection, 49ers > FA signing) Zach Allen (3rd round selection, Cardinals > FA signing) JFM (well we know where they got him > trade for 6th rounder)) Chargers Da’shawn Hand (4th round selection, Lions > FA signing) Teair Tart (UDFA) Justin Eboigbe (4th round selection, Chargers) Jamaree Caldwell (3rd round selection, Chargers) Texans Sheldon Rankins (1st round selection, Saints > FA signing) Mario Edwards (2nd round selection, Raiders > FA signing) Tommy Toiagai (4th round selection, Browns > FA signing) Packers Colby Wooden (4th round selection, Packers) Karl Brooks (6th round selection, Packers) Devonte Wyatt (on IR now) (1st round selection, Packers) My premise is not necessarily that you don’t need adequate NFL defensive tackles. It’s that you don’t need elite defensive tackles and it should be easier to find them. Q was also no longer playing elite for us. Yeah he looked fantastic against the dismal Raiders where he had 1.5 sacks. He doesn’t have a sack in the other three games although I would concede he definitely looked good against the Chiefs (no Trey Smith in that game) & Eagles. He got pushed around against the Lions.
Your still evaluating him like a trade piece. You still don't trade him because he is to valuable as a core player. You trade Garrett Wilson before you trade Q. Replacing Wilson is way more doable than replacing Q. (Not that I'd want to trade Garrett - but that is my point). On offense great QBs are hard to get. On defense great DTs are hard to get. Good teams know this. Q has a good heart, but lets face it, he had 6 years of garbage teams with us. Maybe he was feeling down but we paid him and he would have came around when things looked up. Players in that situation need to be managed outside the lines better. He was not a disruption or malcontent - though I agree he'd seeming lost hope here. Because all he got was double teams and no help and couldn't live up to the level of play his talent warrants. For players to be great they need great players around them.
Edges and DT help each other, but it all starts in the middle. If your weak in the middle your defense is going to be poor. In eight games with us he had 18 QB pressures. In 3 games with Dallas he had 22. That's over 7 QB pressures a game. There is no evidence that Q is declining and saying he didn't have one good game doesn't mean much. The bigger questions are: 1) Do you believe Q was a core player? 2) Was a mid 1st and 2nd worth his value? What is this DT falling off a cliff in their 20s stuff? They are one of the most resilient positions. Calius Cambell is 39. Brandon Graham is 37 Cam Hayward, John Jenkins, and Cameron Jordon are 36. Denarco Autry, Dequan Jones, Shelby Harris, Preston Smith, Jarrod Reed are all over 33. The list goes on and on. Great DT don't decline at the rate great skill positions do. Q probably has another 10 years, and another 5+ of being a top DT.
Yeah but you’re proving my point. All of those guys at advanced ages can be had on short term free agent contacts very easily. They have more staying power in the league because their bigger bodies can take the beating, but that doesn’t mean they maintain a top end level of play that warrants keeping around when two top 50 draft picks are offered for them. John Jenkins has been on 8 teams since 2017 when he was the same age as Q. Autry 3 since 2020. Shelby Harris 3 since 2020. Preston Smith is a defensive end, not a defensive tackle. Daquan Jones 3 since 2020 and he’s anchoring one of the worst run defenses in the league. Cameron Jordan is a defensive end Brandon Graham is a defensive end
I think the disruption was coming. I think they were respectful enough to keep a lid on it but behind doors I bet it was more of a distraction than we realize. Only when a trade happened did the media report that he asked for it and they made comments saying they weren’t surprised he was moved. That doesn’t make any sense because trading a happy pro bowler mid season is always surprising unless he’s a distraction
