Excellent point, winston, and you could easily argue that he remained the only downfield QB to win the Super Bowl until 1975 (Terry Bradshaw). It is an interesting, but indisputable, point that despite Dawson's excellent numbers, no one at the time ever considered him on the level of Namath. And before we attribute that to hype, let's not forget that Namath was the target of tremendous animosity in the late sixties for being a loudmouthed hippie (remember the times, folks - a very large part of society absolutely despised people like Namath, and thought that they were literally traitors to the country). Dawson was a cleancut straight arrow, and in 1970 it would have been just as likely for him to get the benefit of the doubt, as a worthy successor to people like Johnny U.
His numbers are amazing. With his ability (many consider him the purest passer of all) and today's passing rules, he'd put up 30-40 touchdowns every year. In his first year as a starter he threw for 3723 yards and 32 TDs in 1961 (14 games). There is a clip somewhere out there of him throwing a perfect spiral behind his back 25 yards down the practice field. Unfortunately, when he finally played on a playoff team he was injured in 1972 and 1973. His first playoff game was also his final game. He was 6 of 12 for 78 yards with 3 INTs at Los Angeles. The Rams had a great defense, Jurgensen was an old goat, and Larry Brown was falling apart.
Cakes, excellent breakdown as usual. If you really go back and look at that era the most prolific QB was Jergensen. He was a tremendous passer as good as any one I have ever seen play. At the time power football was in vogue and Lombardi had established himself and power football as the wave of the future. I was a big AFL guy because of Namath, what people don't realize is how good a team the Chiefs were. I always felt they were by far the second best team of that era behind GB. They were huge on both sides of the ball and Stram was as innovative and good a HC as any at the time. Any Jet fan of the era can tell you that they may have hated Oakland, Buffalo and SD but we all feared the Chiefs. They were a like a machine on both sides of the ball. Starr and Dawson were great QB because they were both smart and could run the offense without making mistakes. Namath and Jergensen didn't have that luxury their teams didn't win or lose based on the mistakes of the QB they won because the QB made play after play to win the game.
Jurgensen retired as the top-rated passer of all time with an 82.6 rating. Today that would be equivalent to an above 100 rating. Starr and Dawson were great QBs who generally didn't have to win games "by themselves." Namath and Jurgensen had to win games "by themselves", so to speak. And Stram was definitely one of the most innovative head coaches. Top 5, maybe top 2 or 3 in that department. Stram's football mind was a big reason for Dawson's success. Dawson washed out with two teams as that excerpt I posted earlier indicated. Namath did not wash out with two teams. Stram's two biggest innovations would probably be the 3-4 stack defense and the moving pocket. Then Buchanan joined the team in '63 and they went to a 4-3. The Chiefs played a stack 4-3 in the SB 4 win. I think Lanier generally would line up directly behind Buchanan with Lynch behind Brown and Bell behind Culp. The LBs were hidden behind the linemen. In SB 4 Stram called for three flanker reverses. Frank Pitts ran them for 37 total yards and they were key plays in the game. Buchanan and Culp manhandled the Vikings perennial Pro Bowl center Mick Tingelhoff. Dawson did not have an amazing stat line. He was 12 of 17 for 142 yards with 1 TD and 1 INT. The Super Bowl 4 documentary by NFL Films is gold, by the way. That one along with 9 (Steelers-Vikings) and 14 (Steelers-Rams) are the three must-see NFL Films Super Bowl documentaries.
while we are bashing vinny. has anyone mentioned him throwing the game that the whole canes team was handily winning against penn state in the fiesta bowl?? I still have that game on tape. As a canes fan, believe me, alll those titles since have been great, but that one still hurts!!
Three notable Namath performances September 29, 1974 Jets 12 Bills 16 Namath was 2 of 18 for 33 yards with 3 INTs. Buffalo completed 0 passes. The game was played in a driving rainstorm with 45-mph wind gusts. The first completed pass came with less than two minutes remaining. *** October 22, 1972 Colts 20 Jets 24 Namath was 5 of 16 for 228 yards with 2 TDs and 3 INTs. He threw an 83-yard touchdown pass to Eddie Bell in the final minute. Two-game totals vs Baltimore in 1972- 20 completions 44 attempts 724 yards 8 TDs 4 INTs *** October 15, 1967 Oilers 28 Jets 28 Namath was 27 of 49 for 295 yards with 1 TD and 6 INTs. The Jets led 17-0 in the second quarter. Jim Turner attempted a field goal. Houston blocked it and Ken Houston returned it 71 yards for a touchdown. The halftime score was 17-7 and Namath had yet to throw any of his six interceptions. The Oilers scored 21 points in the 3rd quarter on a 51 yard interception return by Miller Farr, a touchdown pass to Monte Ledbetter, and a 43 yard interception return by Ken Houston. The Jets trailed 28-20 entering the 4th quarter. Emerson Boozer ran for a touchdown to cut the lead to 28-26. Namath then threw a 2-point conversion pass to Maynard and the game ended in a tie. Namath threw six interceptions in the second half of a game against a better team (Houston finished 9-4-1 and won the division; Jets finished second at 8-5-1) and yet he still led the team to a come-from-behind tie.
The guy who gets little publicity but as far as I have read and seen of him he is definitely a top 5 QB is Otto Graham. He is rarely mentioned and he should be at or nar the top.
He does get a ton of credit. He's just not plastered all over ESPN like Super Bowl era QBs such as Montana, Marino, Elway, Young, and Bradshaw. Graham was named the top NFL quarterback of the first 50 years. He was also named to the 75th anniversary team along with fellow QBs Montana, Unitas, and Sammy Baugh.
Exactly. There's no video of him, so ESPN thinks he doesn't exist, but every list of alltime QBs always has him on it.
That is a funny line. Sorry it took me so long to respond. I am watching some bowl games and am in the thread bumpin' mood. I have another pro-Namath thing here for nyjunc to dissect. Bob Oates votes for the Pro Football Hall of Fame. He measures every new candidate against Red Grange, Joe Namath, and Jerry Rice. That is sort of funny because Rice is not yet in the PFHOF, though obviously he will be. But my point here is that Namath was truly an all-time great. He was an amazing player. Testaverde does not compare.
QB Otto Graham Cleveland Browns You want Championships??? "Upon joining the Browns in 1946, he was switched to quarterback, where he would lead the team to the league championship game in each of his 10 seasons, winning on seven occasions."
That was one of the first games I ever saw. My dad couldn't understand why Namath kept trying to throw into that wind. We had John Riggins and Emerson Boozer on that team, too.
I love how Pennington gets a pass from most of you time and time again. Yet Vinny was dogshit in your eyes. He got us much closer than Penny did to the big one. Makes no sense to me guys.
Damn. Sorry I missed out on this. I will always be Pro Vinny. Although I hate him as a Pat and glad he won't get a ring that way. Vinny gave us a couple good years. And back then we really needed a few good years too....
Vinny got us to within a half game of the Super Bowl, which for this franchise, was a miracle. How can you dislike Vinny T? So he didn't have any other success with other teams, who cares? And if he didn't get hurt on opening day in '99, I think he would've had just as good of a season. We we're kickin New England's ass, and Vinny was playing great. I will say this though, comparing Vinny T to Broadway Joe... that's a no-no.
Great in 1998. Adequate in 2000. Less than adequate in 2001. Threw monumental interception late in pivotal December game vs NE. Testaverde's blah performance all season long played a large role in the Patriots winning the division and the Jets finishing in second place. Bad in 2002. Ehh in 2003. Garbage in 2005. Add it all up and the guy is not worthy of praise. I don't enjoy mediocrity.
