just call him Kingsley. I agree he has some upside for sure. I think they should take Bowers but if they are dead set against the idea than a trade back is the way to go
I saw Damien Woody say this morning that Bowers would be a luxury pick and I can't fathom how anyone can say that. Outside of our one star WR, our pass-catchers are: -a guy on a one-year deal coming back from a torn ACL -two undrafted rookies -a WR that was a healthy scratch despite making $10 mil a year -a very good TE that has one year left on his deal -a third year TE that hasn't proven he can be a starter yet On what planet is one of the best offensive weapons in the country a luxury for us?
It’s solely because he is labeled as a TE. It’s crazy. He’s a terrific football player and a great weapon
and No, there would be no reason to trade Ruckert unless they had given up on him. He's a more normal in-line TE who is a good receiver and blocker. Both Bowers and he could be on the field at the same time. I doubt that there would be much of a market or that they would get much in return. I think they'd be more likely to trade Conklin than anything, as he would bring a bigger return, would create more cap space, and would likely have a bigger market. Yes, the Jets and most teams carry 3 TEs. Right now Yeboah is the #3 TE. He would probably either be released or waived and put on the PS if no one claimed him. He's a good STer, and with Hardee gone, the Jets could opt to keep him as the #3 TE and trade Conklin, but I imagine that Yeboah would be the odd man out.
There's no doubt about this. On the other hand, what advantage does he have over the best 2nd and 3rd round WR prospects? I'm asking because I have no clue.
the thing about Bowers is just how much yardage he eats up. Its an easy throw for the QB, Bowers rumbles for 8 yards suddenly you have an easy 2nd and 2 for Breece Hall. Look at Georgia's QBs they all sucked, but looked awesome because of him
Yeah, I’m kind of thinking along these lines as well. Barring a trade, we have a first and third round pick. So are we better off going OT at 10 and best available WR with our third round pick, vs. going Bowers at 10 and best available OT with our third rounder. I’d say go OT at 10 and WR with our third rounder…the other way around, whatever OT we would have available in the third round is probably not a huge upgrade over the likes of Mitchell and Warren. To me, OT is THE way to go at 10. Period. Huge need. Draft strength is there. Matches up well. TE at 10, not so much.
You know, it’s interesting…two years ago, I was thinking with the draft coming up that there was no way JD was going CB at 4. And my logic was we were better off with one of those OTs at 4 and Bryce Hall playing CB than we would be by upgrading Bryce to Sauce and filling in the OT some other way. I was also thinking that because we play so much zone, having a shut down type CB in this defense wasn’t as critical. Well clearly JD thought otherwise and went Sauce at 4. And yes he’s been ALL that and more…great pick great player. But our OL issues haunt us STILL to this day. So while we got a great player, we are still talking about fixing that damn OL. This Bowers at 10 talk strikes me much the same. He may or may not pan out…I keep hearing how incredible he is, and I’m not an expert nor have I studied him, so in my mind, he may very well turn out to be THAT great….or, on the other hand, he wouldn’t be the first TE to underwhelm…I know all positions can bust, but it just seems like TEs are not often highly drafted, and many times when they are, they don’t deliver. So there’s that. BUT…even if he DOES deliver and he IS all that…I feel like we’ll still be complaining about when are we going to fix our OL as soon as Smith misses some games. To me, I’d go OT…fix that damn line. And then use the rest of the draft to find a WR or two, perhaps a S as we have need there, and see how it shakes out.
Brock is a Breece type player, makes plays when there's nothing there, churns up yards, and hits on a home run play more often than others at the position. If you could have a Breece Hall at every playmaker position, who wouldn't want that?
Bingo. He's a weapon. Doesn't matter where he lines up or what position he's listed at on your scorecard. He gets the ball and makes things happen with it. You're adding someone that can add production and then make others more productive.
They don't generate as many pre-draft mock clicks as Bowers does among all the analysts who have an invested interest in making their mocks draft speculation stand out. That's the major difference atm/imo Like I said earlier at this point my betting mind would have the Jets taking Bowers at #10. Simply because focusing on the potential value of something while looking 2-3 moves ahead, instead of directly at the less fun to speculate but more pressing at hand issue, is just in this franchise's DNA. *BUT* in the event we don't take Bowers I would argue there is still a very real path on the draft board here where Bowers, kinda like Levis last year, could fall out of the 1st round. Just based on the team draft positioning behind us of picks 11-27 , and what the present needs are among the better bet teams on that list to be drafting offense. I mean a lot of those teams with big holes at OL might just stick picking OL, and I could also easily sees the ones with legit holes at WR still placing higher pick value in guys like Thomas Jr behind the big 3 WR getting most of the top 10 focus attention. And if Bowers drops that far the last 5 teams on the board are BUF/DET/BALT/SF/KC. Barring that being a trade up spot my same betting mind wouldn't have any of them seriously considering spending their #1st on Bowers instead of addressing a more pressing positional need.
Normally that would be fine. But I have zero faith in Saleh. Just don't think he can bring the Jets to the next step. More hype than results. I was a fan of the hire by the way.
And our starting LT is 33 on a 1 year deal and injury prone and last time I checked our OL is responsible for Rodgers getting injured. Need to be prepared. Rodgers could make any offensive unit look good. Need to protect him.
I’m not making a comparison or draft strategy I’m asking how Bowers could possibly be called a luxury pick.
Easy We have MUCH MUCH larger needs at OT and WR. Period. We are ok at TE. On top of that, most TE’s are not difference makers in this league. A select few are. Kelce. Kittle. The Detroit TE is looking like he will become pretty good. Kincaid also. But as rookies, their impacts are not huge. Not as big an impact as say, Garrett Wilson had for us as a rookie. Bowers may very well become as good as Kelce or Kittle. Who knows. He may. Or he may not come close. He’s not as big as either of those two guys I don’t think. But not saying he won’t be good. It’s just we have WAY more need at OT and WR. For this kid to have game changing impact, he’d need to have like 1,000 yards and say, 8 TDs…something like that. Well we already got like 600 yards from Conklin. With trash at QB. So the marginal productivity going from Conklin to Bowers is probably not as big as the marginal productivity of going from Lazard to one of the top WRs (say Odunze for example because Harrison and Nabors will likely be gone by 10). Or on the other hand, sure we have two good starting tackles now, but if Smith goes down (which he will…it’s only a question of how many games he will miss, not a question of IF he will miss games)…the marginal productivity of a top OT vs. someone like Mitchell or Warren, our current backups, is also probably more than going from Conklin to Bowers. So not that I’m saying Bowers won’t be good. I think he probably will be very good. But I just think we have two significant units in OL and WR that desperately need upgrades for THIS year PLUS next year. I think none of Moses, Smith or Mike Williams are signed past 2024. I don’t want to draft a TE now and then have to still find a QB, an OT, and a WR in next years draft. I’d rather find one of the OT or WR (whichever player at 10 is more highly rated) and solve that need for both THIS year AND the future, and roll with Conklin and Ruckert now, and next year we can find another TE if needed. To me, it makes so much more sense for THIS year AND the future than taking a damn TE. That’s why, to me, Bowers IS a luxury pick. It doesn’t make a lot of sense from a team building strategic view.
I just fundamentally disagree with this. We have two good starting tackles. Moses almost never misses time. Smith will probably miss some, but you don't burn #10 overall on injury insurance. We're overrating how important a single OT is because of the injuries and horrible players we trotted out there last year. We had horrible OL + horrible QB + injuries last year, that's why the OL looked so dreadful. Everyone says "Rodgers needs a good OL to be Rodgers" but it's more the other way around - Rodgers will make the OL better. We can't focus our entire organizational strategy on Rodgers never getting pressured. The league is about playmakers. It has been for a long time. Conklin is fine but he's not a difference maker. You could replace him with any average TE in the league and you wouldn't notice a difference. We're more set at WR than we are at TE. That's the argument for Bowers. For what it's worth, I wouldn't mind a WR at all, I just think Bowers is a significantly better prospect than the third WR prospect (the one that'll probably be available at our pick).
Exactly. Bowers is a playmaker pure and simple. In the Kittle/Kelce mode. Call him a TE or a WR, it doesn't matter. He's a guy who can make big plays, get first downs and put points on the board. He's a major shit disturber for opposing defenses. That's what this team has needed forever. Anyone making him out to be a JAG TE or something are severely underselling him and don't understand what type of special prospect this kid is.
Yeah, we do just fundamentally disagree…and that’s ok. I absolutely do NOT see this as “injury insurance”…I see it as a foundational building block for the future and will most likely be a need this year as well. I love the signings of Moses and Smith…the best we could do and I like them both. I hope Smith plays a full season…and if he misses games like he has every year now, I hope it’s just one or two games, not 5-8 games. But if it’s the latter, then I’ll be ecstatic to have “injury insurance”. Also, I totally disagree that we’re better at WR than TE. Couldn’t disagree more on that. GW is great. No question. After him we have literally ONE good option in Williams, but he’s also coming off ACL and only one year. After that, we’re looking at pretty much nothing…Lazard. Gipson. Taylor. Come on…none of those guys is a legit WR2…those guys are WR3 at best and really more like WR4 and WR5 types. Conklin I think more highly of than you do looks like, but that’s ok. I think he’s an average to above average TE. Ruckert who knows. But I value Conklin more than you do, which is also fine. But I absolutely think we are WAY better off at TE than WR as of our current roster. I also think we are better off at TE than at OT due to the high injury risk combined with the future need next year. So for me, it’s a no brainer. I hear your point of view. I just absolutely disagree with it. As you do with mine! All good from my end…I love the back and forth discussion…when it’s focused on football and not a personal attack, I will be happy to debate all day!
