I disagree. Even if we roll with Rodgers, it needs to be new GM and HC. I am not so sure the new GM/HC would mind having AR as his QB in the 1st year. And that to me is the obvious choice: get rid of JD and Saleh and hire new regime. Then let new regime work this out with AR. I think it will end up with him as a starting QB for a year, it's really not the worst thing. But whatever the case is, JD and Saleh's time is up.
I am with you, I didn't make that clear enough, telling Rodgers to screw himself includes keeping him, only screw himself in the sense that we're not doing it his way. But I also feel strongly that if you're going to make your silly attempt to win it all, you don't bring in a new regime for that. You go all in for one year, and when that inevitably fails, you clean house next year. It makes no sense to fire those guys and not start from scratch. You aren't going to attract anyone worth shit if you tell them that they are going to be saddled with this team in an attempt to win in 2024. So you lie in the bed you made, or you sweep it all out the door. The poster formerly known as broomulack - was time for a change.
No GM wants to inherit a roster with conditions. Coaches are a little bit different I think but you can’t do a full organization regime change with Rodgers here. If you do, you have to let the GM choose to try to get rid of Rodgers if they want.
What do you mean, GMs and coaches always inherit players. No one comes in on empty roster. Heck, JD inherited Sam. Then after a year he moved on. New GM can do the same. AR is on one year deal. I doubt he can be traded coming off Achilles at this age, but it's just a one year deal. I don't see a problem here at all, this happens all the time. New GM can still draft a QB and actually sit him for a year under Rodgers, which may not be the worst thing. That will be up to him. I don't think it is a bad situation with Rodgers under 1 year contract.
When you say start from scratch - are you talking about new system or players? I mean we have GW here, Sauce, we are not getting rid of them. Same with AR. Good players will stay. I really don't see a need to get rid of all good players just because we want to win next year. In fact, the job of the GM is to keep good players, maximize their production, and get other good ones so you can win the sooner the better, ideally right away. Just because I want to win next year doesn't mean I want to stick with the losers we have (JD/Saleh). In fact, the whole point is to replace them with better GM/Coach, so that we can win next year, not just 3 years from now.
Yeah but you get talent that turn away offers when you say ok we’ll give you the job but you have to do this or that. Eric DeCosta and George Paton wouldn’t even take the Jets phone calls when we were on the hiring search for either Idzik or Maccagnan because of things like this.
There are no conditions, I agree, but the roster is what it is - this is true for any situation. For Giants they had Daniel Jones, and they got new GM and Daboll. Then it is up to these guys. AR is no different than any other player under contract, albeit in a very important position, but I don't see it as negative. Meaning we don't have run it back with current losers just because he is on the roster. Nor do we have to waive him. Get rid of the biggest problem, which is JD/Saleh (not players), and let the new GM/HC handle the roster.
No no no - coaching staff, GM, and system. The players are already there, no need to get rid of them. It comes down to Aaron Rodgers. It's either we're going to build around him for this year and try and make a run, or draft a quarterback with the first pick, tell Aaron Rodgers he's basically a caretaker and a mentor for a year or however long he wants to play, and groom that quarterback behind him while starting over. No run at a championship if you do that, but that's the only way you can justify ripping everything up and firing everybody. The poster formerly known as broomulack - was time for a change.
I would say I'm usually an optimistic fan but not only is this team at a baffling low (baffling considering the genuine talent sprinkled throughout the roster - we just shouldn't look THIS bad), I also can't see any way out of it for next year because the MORONS who are responsible think it is all down to Rodgers getting hurt. Our coaching staff and owner are the homers. I am too disenchanted to bother actually looking back, but didn't Saleh often say things like 'we're so close', and 'when this offense clicks it's going to be frickin' awesome'. The offense has clicked a couple of times - each time it was clearly as much of a mystery to the coaching staff as it was to the fans, because over the following weeks it just disappeared again. That is as clear as sign as you could wish for that the few times our offense has clicked has had nothing to do with our coaches. Our defense is studded with major talents and sometimes, if the opposition doesn't gameplay effectively, we chew them up. But when an opponent puts together a scheme, we just stand there getting punched in the face time and time again, like Rocky Balboa. I said a while ago that this is all going to happen again next year and I remain convinced it will. Maybe not with Zach - I think they may actually get rid of him, but they will pick a backup who is clearly no threat to Rodgers and WHEN he goes down injured we will be back where we are now. We may well make some sort of stupid play for Davante Adams, who will do nothing here. But the main reason for pessimism is that this coaching staff absolutely reeks. Every single week, the opposition's best players do exactly what they are expected to do - catch touchdowns, run through gaping holes, sack the quarterback, stuff running plays. Every single week opposing coaches prepare their teams to attack our weaknesses and every single week we are surprised by it. Saleh is a fraud. I suspected he was when he came out with that pathetic eagle-crow metaphor that wasn't true and made no sense anyway. Were we the crow? Does he think we're a fucking eagle? We're an eagle with no wings, a heart condition and a bad limp. Ulbrich is a fraud. I suspected he was when he asked his players to do a little bit more than their jobs, so it would be like we had 22 players on defense. It's the stupidest thing I've ever heard a professional coach say - every decent coach says you do your job, and when you try to do more, that's when mistakes happen. It sounded good for the Hard Knocks cameras, but it made zero sense. If he gets a head coaching job after this season I will be delighted - he will suck as a head coach and we might get a better coordinator. The success of the defense is entirely down to the talent we have on it. Hackett is a fraud. I can't believe he has anything to do with this team. We're doomed.
There's always Rex Ryan I'm not kidding either. He would kill to be the Jets coach again. He would take on this dysfunctional mess with Douglas and even Nathaniel Hackett
Not to nitpick, but JD hired Saleh…he didn’t hire Gase, so if Woody does let him hire a new HC, it would be his second hire. Regardless…while I’ve been more inclined to keep JD because I just KNOW that Woody would fuck up the next GM hire as he’s done every single one he’s made, I have no issue cleaning house…to me, it’s not even about drafting Zach…it’s about the inability to build even an average OL in 4 years, the doubling down on Zach as the #2 QB this year, and then when I look at drafts, he’s had one GREAT draft but the rest have been so-so. Saleh is a DC. Period. He has ZERO answers on offense. He built a pretty damn great D, but he’s actually the HC, not the DC, so as good as the D is, the O is worse. I’m good with cleaning the fuck house in total…
I usually agree with you, but here's where I'm staunchly on the other side. We were just as dysfunctional with him but in a different way. His act wore thin, and the fact that as "well-respected" as he is he's never had any success anywhere afterwards, but instead is a cartoonish broadcaster says everything I need to know. Sorry buddy, but hard pass on this one.
For me - next year we have to make a run - regardless of anything else. New GM/HC would decide whether to draft a QB or not. Even if they draft, it's not a bad thing to have him under AR for a year. KC got Mahomes even though they had a good QB. But it needs to be someone new GM believes in. Either way though, a GM needs to have a plan to address the OLine. We still need to make a run next year, even if we do not use 1st round pick on OL, but a QB. The only point I was making is that regardless of everything else, AR is under contract, and we need a new a GM/HC. I do not want another season with these guys. They have had enough time here, and they failed. AR can learn a new system, the guy is smart, and I am hoping a new HC, who will be calling plays on offense, will adjust his scheme to better fit his players, like any good offensive HC would. To summarize: we need new regime now AND we need to win next year. It's not one or the other. It is BOTH: one BECAUSE of the other. And AR can help, if that's what the new regime wants. Just like Daniel Jones helped the new regime of the Giants last year, and hopefully even better than that. Remember Giants left him on a 1 year deal, didn't pick up an option. New regime has the same situation and can achieve same or better success, because our roster is as good or better than the Giants one last year.
The object is always to win, so no one is going to come in here and say "we're not going to try and win a championship next year" - but the reality of the Jets situation is that there is no second round pick, and there is a lot of work to be done to get the offense to where it needs to be to really compete for a championship. So, that first round pick becomes key. There is no real way for us to take a QB at 5, 6, 7 (wherever we pick) and not have another pick again until the 3rd round while trying to shore up the roster for a championship run next year. We are not a piece or two away. So you have to choose between a QB who won't play in 2024 (both because he shouldn't and because you have Rodgers) or a piece that can help Rodgers.If you take the QB, you have almost no chance of filling in the holes in the roster. Add that to the fact that a new regime is not going to come in and try to complete the job of the previous regime. That's never worked unless the team was ready-built and needed almost no love. We need a lot of love, we need like - we need simple affection. We're a long way from just needing love. So, what would we kind of GM and coaching talent would we attract in that situation? None worth talking about. It really is one or the other as much as you don't want it to be. Rodgers can be a part of both, but you can't take two forks in the same road at the same time.
No more defensive HCs please. It doesn't work unless you have a great QB. They are even talking about firing Tomlin. The times have changed. This is offensive League. A HC needs to be actually calling plays on offense. However, we can bring in Rex or Ulbrich, who did well on defense, to be DCs.
There is a way. You can trade next year's picks for this year's ones. You can move up. You can find talent in the 4th round, where we have two picks. You can actually make good FA signings. We don't have to have the best OL in the League next year. Just not an awful one, and the offense under a good HC can come alive. Now, unless there is a QB the new GM really loves (who knows if there will be one) I wouldn't draft a QB. Chance are that will be the case anyway. But even if a QB is drafted in the 1st round, there is a way to compete next year. Dawand Jones lasted until the 4th round. Heck, Fant is having a decent season on a cheap. Baltimore signed Moses away from us for 5 mil on multi year deal. If we see a lineman in the second we love, maybe we can trade next year's second to get him. There is a way, but a GM has to know what he is doing when it comes to OL, which JD proved he does not. Either way, we gotta get a new GM and then let's see how the draft and free agency unfolds. But I do think there is a way to complete even if we draft a QB.
This is going all in for 2024, which no regime taking over the job in 2024 is going to do. They aren't going to set themselves up for sure failure in their second year to try and win with someone else's vision it their first year. It's a nice thought for a forum dicussion, but there's no way it would work that way. You fire everyone, you instantly and automatically turn 2024 into a "we'll do the best we can but it's about the future" scenario. You don't necessarily have to draft a QB, but a new guy coming in with a top 5 pick in what's considered a strong QB draft is almost certainly going to want to take one. So pick your poison: try and win everything in 2024 with what we have (which is an oxymoron at this point) or clean house and make it about being as competitive as possible in 2024 while we build for the future.
It’d be fun but Rex as a head coach is never going to get sustainable success. We saw that after the two AFC championship games. He takes his teams on too many emotional highs and lows throughout the year to keep them level enough to consistently get deep into the playoffs. 2013 is the epitome of what I’m talking about. Beat the Pats in OT, lose to the Bengals by 40. Beat the Drew Brees Saints at home, lose to the shitty Bills in an ugly game.
