Zach Wilson vs Giants: A Breakdown

Everyone keeps going back to the 4th down sack and that was bad. There was no one open and two he threw a dot the play before and it was dropped. From that play on he won the game for the Jets.

When you watch the all 22 you see a QB maneuvering in the pocket and making several throws were he was absolutely smacked after the throw. There is no way he took a step back if you watch this tape objectively. For the love of god the opposite Qbs threw for negative yards. Let's not forget he had zero running game playing with our fourth-string center ( people keep saying third string Tippman is our number 2 center). Pressured on over 50% of his dropbacks. Give the kid a break.

Oh, That dump off to Breece was not an easy through as he had to change arm angles to make it.

 

Why do I have to? You are the one with the asinine opinion that he was worse than Zach Wilson. Wilson didn't pick up a first down nearly the whole freakin game. Goff did, he was better.

 

We'll just have to agree to disagree. I don't think he missed too much or that his ball placement was bad on those dropped throws. Watch the Michael Nania breakdown of Zach's game on the link I provided in post #73. Other QBs aren't having as many balls dropped as Zach is. That's a fact. IMO you CAN add back in those drops. It was those drops that caused the offense to struggle and not score more points. It was those drops that killed momentum, and those drops have an effect on a QB's play, especially if the QB is more of a streaky-type passer, and Zach may be one of those. Even if not, how is a QB supposed to get into a flow, a rhythm when his receivers are dropping key 2nd and 3rd down passes? Yes, his own mistakes hurt the offense as well, and he HAS to fix those if he hopes to become a long-term starter in this league. I believe he will. I don't think he's anywhere near his ceiling yet. Why would you have to take away the 50-yd TD if you add in the drops? That makes no sense to me. Zach did a great job getting the ball Breece on that throw. He had to throw it sidearm to get it around a defender and the ball placement was excellent. Breece did the rest. Many QBs have gained TD passes like that due to YAC. You know that. Every week there are usually several if not a number of 40-, 50- 60-, 70-, or 80-yard TDs. It's not every TD pass where the ball travels 40-50 yards in the air. In fact, those are probably the minority of TD passes.

I don't think we'll know what Zach's ceiling is unless or until we get an OC who designs the offense around what Zach's strengths are and who is at least a good play caller. The QBs who have become great in the NFL have played in offenses that took advantage of their strengths and hid their weaknesses. Zach has yet to play in an offense like that.

 

I gave specific reasons, also wasn't talking to you. Me and Ky had a normal conversation going with no issues about what we actually saw with our own eyes and examples. You came in and butted in, cherry picked 1 word out of my post and then used 1 stat to say it was wrong which is an extremely arrogant and rude thing to do, and when I called you out for being an arrogant jerk but in a nice way by simply giving a legit response, you turned around and called me arrogant so yeah pretty ironic.

 

How is that rude? You made the claim Wilson was better than Goff and Garappolo, I commented on that.

You and KY can start a private chat if you dont like others to comment

 

But we aren't counting Breece's 50 receiving yards on a 2 yard pass by Zach and the Giants not being able to move the ball whatsoever due to their 3rd string QB? We had dominant field position the entire game and still couldn't score any touchdowns other than Breece's.

 

How did he do on the Wonderlic and other football IQ exams?

 

I said he had a better week. not that he's better overall.
it's rude and arrogant because it was a real discussion. had you added to it, thats fine but when 2 people are talking and you run in between and make a fart noise and run away it's pretty rude. If you actually join in and add to the conversation at the same level the rest of the people are then it's not rude.

I don't count yards but yes breece gets the majority of the credit for that play as well as some to hackett, the blockers, and a little to zach for executing the easy throw. Gibbs was gashing the raiders D all game on the ground though while breece had 11 carries for 12 yards so the run game wasn't helping zach the way it did for goff and goff made a major mistake that took a guaranteed 3 points into 7 the other way making it a 2 point game. Goff was off for whatever reason. maybe he had some bad sushi IDK. but the OC took the game out of his hands because he saw it.

 

we dont know actually. It was never released. It was a covid year for Wilson so the players took them privately.

I believe since then they have dropped the wonderlic all together from the combine so you won't know scores much in the future. Some players do still take them but I imagine reporting of the scores will be less and less

 

Thanks for these pictures and this post. I agree here that it seems the ball should go to GW, but it looks as if Zach is looking elsewhere We don't know what the play design called for in terms of the progression.

Again, it looks to me as if Zach is looking more downfield and to the left. We don't know the progression order on this play, but it seems to me the ball should have been thrown to the receiver (I can't make out his number) on the right hashmarks who is between the LOS and the yard line and is the closest to the 1st down line.

Which one is Conklin? The picture is so blurry, I can't tell who the receivers are. Zach appears to be looking at the receiver who is at the 38 yard line and looking back at him. Is that Conklin? Zach could have thrown the ball there and he probably gets the 1st, maybe more, but with the receiver looking back at Zach and running downfield the defender could have also put a huge hit on the receiver and hurt him or caused an incompletion. The receiver on the right sideline appears to be open, but Zach isn't looking in that direction. This could be a matter of not getting through is reads quickly enough or the problem of locking onto one receiver rather than going through his progressions. Either is something that needs to be fixed. That said, it's very easy for us sitting at a warm, dry, desk without worry about throwing an interception or having a 260-270 lb. DL run into us going full tilt. I think it was also still raining at this point in the game

It's easy for you or me or anyone to say that there's no need for him to bail from a clean pocket but we aren't getting hit by Thibodeaux and Lawrence. Thibodeaux or whomever that pass rusher is is beating Becton and not a single one of these receivers is open. He knows that he needs to get rid of the ball quickly, so he could just throw the ball away, but that means that they have to punt. He can possibly give one of his receivers time to get open by leaving the pocket or be able to run the ball and get the first down. I disagree with you on this one.

I know that fair and you want to see Zach succeed. I have a sincere question for you. With any other Jets QB, have you ever broken down plays to see whether he just didn't see or throw the ball to an open receiver? I've been on this list since 2013, and we've seen a lot of bad QB play during that time, and I don't recall ever seeing any poster breaking down plays and criticizing the QB because he doesn't see or throw the ball to an open receiver and instead throws the ball to another receiver, throws it away, runs with the ball, or even takes a sack. It seems to me, that because of all the negativity, all of us are getting more and more nit-picky, looking for things to criticize Zach about. Now maybe it's just a matter that due ot technology we didn't have these breakdowns before and now we do. If so, then that's OK and fair, but it seems to me that it's going further than that, at least with some here. Again, perspective is everything. Michael Nania is NOT a Zach fan, and yet he says that Zach had one of his best games as a Jet vs the Giants, while many others are saying that he was below average, regressed badly or sucked.

 

I agree that most everyone would have shit on him for throwing it short of the 1st down marker, but that's just how blind and biased many posters are. Zach could throw for 400 yards and 5 TDs, and posters here would still be saying that Zach sucks or it was a fluke or crediting the receivers or OL and anyone but Zach. On that play, however, it looks like Carter could have gotten the 1st down, but who knows maybe Carter drops the ball (it wouldn't be his first on a 3rd or 4th down catch) or maybe he fumbles the ball when tackled. Still, that would have been on Carter, not Zach for a rational, unbiased observer. With the view we have, I don't think anyone was open that was in the screen, and the other receivers were off screen. Perhaps the All 22 can give a better perspective. I disagree that getting 7-8 yards is usesless. It should accomplish two things. First and foremost, Zach can't be criticized for taking a sack on a key down. He can't help it if the WRs can't get open. He would have done his job and delivered the ball to a receiver who had a chance to get the 1st down. That's all anyone can reasonably ask of the QB in a situation like that. Second, those additional 7-8 yards normally mean that would put the Giants offense 7-8 yards more downfield (in worse field position) following the punt.

Also, I'm just trying to be fair and unbalanced. If he's holding the ball too long or taking sacks because he doesn't see open receivers, that's a problem. Others have pointed it out for Zach in previous games and in this one as well. This is the first one where I've had time to go back and look at the more in-depth breakdowns and discuss in more detail.

 

If he has a chance to get a 1st then maybe but without the all 22 look I can't really say. Ds usually guard the sticks on those downs and give the underneath stuff to come up and make a tackle. as a QB you are taught to go for thee sticks or deeper in those situations as anything else is likely a turnover. zach isn't playing to "not get blamed" he's playing to win. The only complaint i'll have with the sack is since it's 4th down and if you feel the sack coming just chuck it even if it's in triple coverage. maybe the WR makes a play or you get a flag

 

This is a fair point. That said, if you look at it from a different perspective, it's actually much worse for Goff and Garapolo to play so badly. They know better, they've been more consistent and have played at a higher level in the past, but still neither are that good. Neither are as talented as Zach. Zach is still a work in progress. Zach perhaps took a step back in a few ways on Sunday, but overall, he's progressing and getting better, while Goff and Garapolo are getting worse.

Garapolo was probably benched because he has not been playing at a high level this year, I believe he was injured to start the year, and the Raiders are losing games and the pressure is on after all the capital they used to bring in Davante Adams and Garapolo. They are looking at a rebuild so they might as well see what the Aiden kid can do. The Jets are winning with Zach's play and they know that they don't have another QB who is as good as Zach.

I couldn't agree more regarding McDaniels.

 

I can agree with that. I don't think he was good, I just don't think he was awful so thats pretty fair. I just think I seen 5-7 Qbs who were worse so I was kinda shocked about ranking as low as 30. 25 though is pretty fair which is firmly below average but thats about the best we'll get with zach it seems. I do think he regressed from the last 3 weeks so i'll agree with that as well. I'd like him to expand on drawing people offsides, and audibles and more Pre-play things when he has time. during the play zach si what he is but pre-play is where he can improve the most IMO

 

Well…I DID say that when I watched the game when I got home (and knowing the final outcome already), I didn’t think he played as terribly as I had expected from just seeing the stats and reading the commentary.

But even still, I don’t know how you can objectively look at that game and come away thinking he played well. He didn’t. He had a few great throws, most importantly those two throws at the end to get us in field goal range, and he had a few other great throws like the sideline one to GW, but overall he did not play well. when you don’t make any third downs until so late in the game, that’s not a good thing.

And sure, I know the weather sucked, but this wasn’t the first game to be played in the rain, and I also know the OL was decimated and he faced pressure, and I also know that this same Giants D held Buffalo to 14 points in Buffalo, so it’s a good D.

I grant all of that, which is why I feel like Zach, while bad, was not as terrible as I had expected to see.

 

Interesting question on that last point about having to break down Zach’s games throw by throw. This has been my point. We only have to do this to try and explain away the continually bad offensive performance. We have to sit and look at every damn throw and say hey, well on THIS one the receiver dropped it, and on THAT one he got immediate pressure, and on THAT one he made the right read but the other guy was open, and on and on and on. We have to do that because if you just step back and watch the games, and see how we can’t sustain drives, and how our QB struggles to get to 60% completion, and how we struggle to score TDs, it’s pretty clear that we are not getting good QB play. And sorry, pointing out how other QBs are also struggling is fine but it has no bearing on what we see or don’t see from Zach.

Or to put it another way, I think it’s interesting that the general consensus is NOT that Zach is a good QB and then you have to go dive deep to show examples of why he isn’t. It’s the opposite. The general consensus, and yes the stats, all say hey, he’s not that good, and then you have to go dive deep to try and show he is.

I guess maybe the way to look at it is that not a heck of a lot of us are saying he’s GOOD…maybe we’re really saying hey he’s getting a little bit better…not by a lot, and maybe it’s taking longer than we all wanted, but we can see a little bit of progress. I guess I can get behind that line of thinking…

 

this^ nobody is saying he's a good QB. we are saying he went from the worst starter by far in the NFL and shouldn't be a starter, to a backup and now he's playing well for a backup and even better then some starters. Doesn't mean he's playing well overall ti just means he isn't complete ass

 

Hackett needs to install some hurry-up/no-huddle drives.

 

I watched the all 22. When the question is asked how did he play, I ask the question a different way. What could have done better. KYJET broke down what he thought Zach could have done better (I would argue if he watched the all 22 he might change his mind on a couple of plays).

Zach started of slow with that fumble but played pretty well after that. He did not miss wide open receivers, he looked really good maneuvering in the pocket and had several completions where he was getting hit as he threw including the last throw of the game. He had one bad miss that the ball slipped out of his hand and taking a sack on the 4th down that he had no chance of completing.

Yes, he played well above average considering.

What I do not know is what happens presnap and what protection adjustments he might have missed. He did not miss many throws. If the ones KYJets pointed out are the worst he had a pretty good day and got better as the game progressed.

The offense is bad and they need figure out a way to get the ball in the endzone. The chargers have a pretty good pass rush and that worries me with our patch work o-line. We need to get the running going or Zach will be getting pressured at a hi rate once again.

I encourage everyone the all-22 and watch hw Zach is moving in the pocket. No way he does that last year.