Wise choice on your part. He's one of the most disingenuous, closed-minded posters on this site. He will never admit when he's wrong (and he is quite frequently). You've been wasting your time and energy trying to have an intelligent and respectful discussion with him.
Can you point out when I haven’t admitted I was wrong? I really have no problem with it. I was terribly wrong about Dalvin Cook and the trade up to get Breece Hall. Wrong about most of the 2018 QB class including Darnold being a stud and Allen being atrocious. Saleh is a better coach than I thought but we still should’ve gotten Daboll when we had the chance. Also thought Mosley was going to be awful when he returned and he was an All-Pro upon his return. But I don’t even know why I’m saying this to you because you don’t even watch Jets games you just read Michael Nania and the ESPN box score and respond on Mondays about what happened.
Uh if Wilson becomes a good quarterback it’ll be undeniable by anyone who thinks he would suck from the start. We’re lightyears away from that point but I’ll be elated if it gets there and gladly admit I was wrong. You straw-manned my entire post by answering questions with questions. How is Tua’s situation his first 3 years any different than Wilson’s? There’s a big thing around here where everyone likes to say X QB sucked this week! Didn’t you see it?!? That makes Wilson not suck! I do it with Tua’s entire career and suddenly we’re not accounting for variables or anything. That proves the hypocrisy. Did Jeff George suck because of variables or did he just suck because he sucked? Cade McNown? Joey Harrington? Patrick Ramsey? By your analysis, a QB is only as good as their situation dawg. Which means every QB that is good = good situation, every QB who is bad = bad situation.
Zach Wilson got the “kiss of death” today on ESPN the article talked about how tomorrow is a good matchup for Wilson. Good matchup I guess relative to expectations. He is ranked 20th against man coverage and 29th overall. Giants play a lot of man coverage
Well it's not a definitive measurement, but it's a strong indicator. What I find interesting is that QBs who get sacked a lot do so almost regardless of how good/bad the OL is. Certainly a bad OL will exacerbate this, but fixing the OL won't necessarily reduce the number of sacks significantly. One aspect that might be hard to predict from watching a college QB is that they may be able to get away with a lot more running around and not actually get sacked, but in the pros, with much faster, stronger rushers, those 20-30 yard backward scrambles in college turn into 20+ yard sacks for loss, so the QBs sack rate in college might not be a red flag - looking at how much a QB does "negative scrambling" might be as good an indicator. And yes, the "Menu test" is questionable. Show someone the same menu enough times and they'll process it quickly. While defenses are always changing, there are certain constants and tip offs that once a QB has seen them enough he can recognize and react to them quickly.
What I bolded is a straw man argument. I've never said that. I never thought any of those QBs you listed were good, or tried to explain why they failed. If I wanted to take the time to investigate each of those situations I'll bet that I do find bad coaching contributed, but from what I know, these were cases where these guys either weren't really that good, or maybe they were, but they didn't put the effort in once they got to the NFL. But the one key ingredient that changes a "bad situation" to a "good situation" is good coaching. The rest of the "bad situation" may stay the same (for a while), but if a coach knows how to develop a QB, and the QB puts in the effort, the odds are he'll succeed. As for Tua, I don't know enough about him and his situation to comment on that, but here's the point: unless you have two QBs who played in the exact same situation - same coaching, same offensive system, same OL, same skill players, etc. - you can't accurately compare them. I know, we do it all the time, but it doesn't make it any more accurate.
Sorry. Personal Foul. 15 posts on StinkyB. Not enough compliments on Zach Wilson in the Zach Wilson compliment thread.
unnecessarily flagged like the JETS... I'm just a neutral observer... that watches games, even if it means having to go to a bar or find a stream to watch them.
I agree. Even in the last paragraph, with two QBs in the same situation, it's hard to compare, because each may have very different strengths and weaknesses, one may respond well to the coaching style and the other may not, or it may be a great scheme fit for one, but not the other, or perhaps one of them played in a similar scheme in college or with their previous team, and the other didn't. It's like gasedandconfused said yesterday or the day before, there are always variables that can make trying to compare players and situations very difficult if one wants to really understand the situation and look at why one player is doing well and the other isn't (if that's the case). Many fans don't want to think that much or look that deeply. It's easier just to say that the one who struggled "sucks" and move on.
Well, the question to me, isn't as honest as you may think. It's as honest as me asking you, at what point will you admit that Zach has become an above-average QB? The admit part is horseshat, & where you & others tend to miss the point. You & others have made your judgements about Zach, while I & others have open-minds yet to pass judgement. We're not at opposite sides than you, we just see a young talented man, who is working hard to become proficient at his craft, under the tutelage of a new set of mentors. To make it simple, you've closed the book, & ours is still open. You see Zach as a bust. We see him as a work-in-progress. For me, the only question is growth... is he approaching/has he reached his ceiling? As I'm unable to see into the future, my suspicion is that when I see Zach no longer growing, I would conclude that his ceiling is where he's at. Since he's still growing, at least to those of us with open-minds, the book is still open. He seems to have raised his floor in the past few weeks. Over the next 11 games, we'll get a clearer picture of his ceiling. .
He hasn’t ever performed as an above average QB though. So how can you ask a guy when he will admit it?.. the answer is probably if/when he ever does
Sounds good guy. Continue on with your open book. I’ll keep watching games and judge what I see week to week without holding on to the hope & prayer strategy.
I was thinking recently about this, being a top pick at QB position, and what the expectation should be. What I see is that vast majority of these picks don't really become top 10 QBs. Even our own team drafted Sam and Sanchez top 5, and they were never top 10 QBs, more like back-ups. So, if that mostly doesn't happen, is that really a realistic expectation to be top 10 or merely a hope that they might be? I think it is rally the later. You hope the guy will be a top 10, but based on history, to be fair, you can't really expect it. If Zach gives us middle of the pack QB this year, or even 20-22nd QB, and as just a 24 years old continues to improve, sticks in NFL for a second contract and perhaps becomes a starter, which is a lot more realistic today than it was a month ago, I don't think he would be viewed as the worst top QB pick in history.
