Seems to me that you thought he played solid while the game was in reach. Which is all he's being asked to do. AND HE DID IT AGAINST THE BEST DEFENSE IN FOOTBALL! Why does it bother you that he played poorly when he changed his risk/reward threshold?
I disagree that Zach played terribly. You have become so much of a dark sider that you are starting to dismiss the positive/good things that Zach does as if they're nothing. He made a number of great throws on Sunday and you labeled them "solid" which undersells how well he was playing. Killing him for the 4th Qtr. is silly imo. What did you expect? He shouldn't even be playing. He's still learning and working to fix his issues. He's made more progress than I thought he would have, but he still has issues, and when combined with Hackett's horrible game plan, lack of adjustments,lousy play calling (for the most part), the lousy play of the OL, the refusal to run right, the refusal to have a TE or Bawden helping with Parsons, the lack of screens and quick throws, the slow-developing routes of the WRs, the biased calls of the officials, and the fact that Zach was under pressure and taking a pounding all game takes a toll. In the 4th qtr. when a team is well behind, QBs get desperate, start pressing, and try to make something happen. When that happens, they make bad decisions and bad throws. Zach isn't the first QB to do that and won't be the last. You're comparing apples and oranges when you compare other QBs to Zach, and at least you admit it, but since you admit that it really isn't valid, why even go there? The situations are very different as are the QBs. I guarantee you that both Stroud and Howell are in more QB-friendly offenses that fit their strengths. Zach is not. I understand that it's frustrating. It is for me too. The thing is, I think the QBs you mentioned would have been struggling (perhaps as badly as Zach) with what they had to deal with from Hackett, the bad OL play, and the lack of good play on the part of the D vs Dallas. I think Rodgers would have struggled and had one of his worst games. He always struggled playing Dallas. I think the would have called a lot of audibles and gone with a lot of quick throws and screens, but with the play of the OL, I'm not sure that he would have had much success.
No worries! I didn't take it personally. I understand the frustration when it comes to Zach, and I'm sure all of us truly want him to succeed because that means the Jets will be a good team. Is that likely now? No, it's not. However, we can all still have hope that he can turn it around and just be competent. With just competent QB play, I truly believe this team can make the playoffs. That's why basically all of us got so excited when the Rodgers trade happened. I and a lot of others, yourself included, clearly have major doubts that Zach can even do that but it's not impossible.
The pressure Zach was under, no one was going to succeed. The bottom QB’s I’ve seen are mostly due to poor offensive line play and some bad QB’ing mixed it. You need time back there, and this is the same line that Rodgers, for 4 plays, was running all over the place in the pocket. it starts up front, particularly the left side. Quite possibly the worse left side in football. If you got to move Becton to LT, do so. If Tippman can play, slide him in the lineup. Then figure out if McGovern or Laken is the answer at LG. Then go from there. Also if you have a dominant Right side of the line, why aren’t the jets running to that side? You gotta play to your strengths.
Outstanding breakdown KY. . Excellent job as always. These are the kind of posts that make this site special. My two cents commentary. Too bad that as of late we are getting bombarded with a bunch of meaningless new posts with one liners on subjects already discussed at nausea.
I get it and as I've already said, I'm going to back Zach as long as he's the starting QB for this team, however long that may be. I want to believe in him and believe that he can turn the corner but I'm just not sure it's going to happen anymore. The odds are not on his side but I genuinely hope he proves me wrong and becomes the exception to the rule. I just don't see how anyone can watch that video or watch the game and come away with any other interpretation than Zach played bad. It was never my intention to dismiss anything that Zach did well but how much kudos do I have to give him for hitting Conklin on a 5-6 yard curl? Or hitting Hardman on a similar play late in the 4th? Those are routine plays that I would expect even Tim Boyle to make, so yeah, I may gloss over those a bit because they're not that impressive. Do they show growth from Zach? Sure, but as I've stated numerous times the relative nature of his improvement has to be taken into consideration. Improving from the 33rd best QB to the 30th best QB is not going to save him, as it shouldn't, and I expect more from a former 2nd overall pick in his 3rd year. As I noted in my quick thoughts from the 1st half, I thought 1st half Zach was a version of Zach that this team can win with even with his fairly modest stats at the time and even as late as going into the 4th I thought that Zach was ok. I made multiple notes throughout the breakdown as well showing my disdain for Hackett's formations (please Hackett, stop it with the empty sets!), and at the end, I noted some context to Zach's bad performance; the D giving up 30 points, the RBs only gaining 24 yards, and how Hackett never let Zach get into a rhythm early and only had him throw 5 times before the 2 minute drive before halftime. I've also given Zach kudos in subsequent posts for improving his pocket awareness and navigation skills, something that has been sorely lacking in his first two years as a pro. I also think that he's a bit mentally stronger this year. Again, improvement, right? I didn't crucify him for the 2nd or 3rd pick either IMO. 2nd pick is one you can live with within the context of the game situation and his decision making process. The 3rd pick is either 50/50 on him and MC or 100% on him if he threw a bad ball. I'm not ZW nor MC so I can't say definitively how much blame goes to either one but Zach has some blame there regardless. When Zach made good throws, I made a note of that in the breakdown. The back shoulder pass to GW in the 4th, the incompletion on the deep ball to Lazard in the 4th, standing strong in the pocket and delivering a good ball to Lazard to get the DPI in the 4th. Zach made a handful of really good throws but that's always been the case with Zach. He makes 3-5 truly great throws every game, some more solid/decent throws, and then a few mistakes (sometimes more than a few). This has been his MO going back to his rookie year. We've got to see more consistency with him. I felt like I explained myself well enough on the reasoning for bringing up Stroud and Howell. They're in different situations so it's apple to oranges to compare them but it's frustrating to watch Stroud in his 2nd game give a better performance than we've ever seen from Zach over 20+ starts. Same with Howell. I have a hard time seeing Zach willing us to an 18 point comeback against a defense as good as Denver. I also have a hard time believing that Stroud or Howell are in a much better situation than Zach so it's not even like I can use that as an excuse. The Texans and Commanders will be lucky to win 5-6 games each this year IMO. I appreciate your opinions on a lot of things and I know this is something that we've come to not see eye-to-eye on but c'mon man, 170 yards and a 1:3 TD:INT ratio is just objectively bad and there's really no other way to spin it IMO. Hackett and the OL did him no favors, but he has his fair share of blame for the outcome Sunday too.
I fully understand your frustration with Zach, as I share it too. But where you place most of the blame for that on Zach, I place much of it on outside influences that he had/has no control over. That said, I don't absolve him of blame entirely, nor does he get a free pass. Life isn't fair. Most of life is outside of anyone's control and we still need to find a way to succeed. Fair or not, Zach was thrust back into the starting role before he was probably fully ready, but he's going to have to accept that and step up or step down. If he can't get it done better than he has he's going to lose the job. That will be unfortunate, and it will piss me off that the Jets ruined yet another young QB, but that's outside my control. I can only hope they finally find a QB who can take them to a SB and win it before my time is up, which is growing shorter. My greater frustration is aimed at the continued failing of the OL, and JD's failure to fix it. TO me, that's the "house on fire" issue right now, not who the QB is. They DO need to get a better backup than Boyle because Zach might well go down behind this line, but IDK who that should be. If the Jets really do think Zach can still be the guy, bringing in a QB who expects to be the starter would only make matters worse. Of course if they actually don't think he can be the guy then that should definitely be an option, but who exactly could they get at this point? Zach has played two of the best defense in football and done pretty well, all things considered, as supported by your own breakdown, until he finally started falling apart in the 4th qtr. Belichick will be another huge test for him. Hackett has to give him much more help in handling things than he did against Dallas or we'll see another shitty performance and increased calls to bench him. It's not fair, but that's life.
Yes, Zach unraveled under pressure and took desperation passes in the 4th quarter. I will say the first interception was very ill advised. The 4th quarter was go for whatever works, which offensively or defensively was nothing. We got completely man handled and out coached. Lets not minimize how putrid the OL was. Had we had any kind of protection, any kind at all, the play to Wilson in the end zone was played perfectly and would have been a smashing TD getting us back in the game. Instead Zach got hit in the arm. That was huge. Totally different ball game. We knew going in that Zach is not at a level to lead this team from behind particularly against a great defense. So what did we do, we laid a massive egg defensively, add the further insult of some pathetic refereeing. Add a simply atrocious offensive game plan, idiotic moves by taking the ball out of Hall's hands, running into a brick wall on the left side and never changing, a simply laughable spread spread formation for a QB that is getting no protection and no separation, and we want to dump the whole blame on Zach. AR would not have done shit with that. May be not throwing three interceptions but sacked or killed far more often. We damned well know at this point that for Zach to have even a fighting change he needs for every one else to step it up a notch. He is what he is. And this CS and most of the players didn't do enough to make a difference, starting with Sauce, the D line, and the most disgusting performance by the OL to date. Add the fact that we were seriously outcoached and we got the results we deserved. Take Zach out of the equation and with the performance Sunday the results would not have changed much.
All you need to know about our 3rd year quarterback who is improving according to the "fan club". If he was improving he wouldn't be making dumb decisions like this. His stats speak for himself. But keep supporting him thats why he is still the starting Qb for this dysfunctional team. Crazy how sauce has looks shaky for the 1st couple games and people are crucyfing him, Zach Wilson has played like hot garbage every single game in a Jets uniform and people still coddling him and making excuses for him. 24 games is not enough to determine he is hot garbage right? We need to give him 10 more years? Once again armchair coaches and game dissecters and qb whisperers, if the Jets believed in Zach Wilson or thought he was salvagable why would a 40 year old be brought in to replace him? answer this please Vs buffalo Matt Milano intercepts the Zach Wilson pass vs. New York Jets - YouTube Vs dallas Jayron Kearse intercepts the Zach Wilson pass vs. New York Jets - YouTube
All of this is well said. I do think that the GM and coaching staff have some share in the blame for how Zach's career has gone, so I apologize if I haven't articulated that well enough. However, when you draft a QB 2nd overall, you expect him to elevate the rest of the team. Maybe that doesn't happen his rookie year, maybe it doesn't even happen his 2nd year, but going into his 3rd year? You expect that person to make significant strides over that period of time to the point where he's no longer a liability. I even understand that this line of thinking isn't fair to Zach. It's not his fault he was drafted 2nd overall, but the reality is I expected Zach to be a Top 10-15 QB at this point in his career. While I can move the goalposts slightly for him in terms of how I expect him to play, I still have to look at things objectively and call a spade a spade. Like you said, fair or unfair, he's gotta step up over the next few weeks and while I'm not expecting it, I sincerely hope it happens.
Do you remember on his draft night Douglas specifically told him: "Zach we're not going to ask you to carry this team, we're going to carry you". And that was because Douglas knew what the Jets had down with Darnold and how that failed. But then they went right out and dumped the whole thing on Zach's shoulders. They did exactly the opposite of what Douglas said they would do, and they got exactly the same outcome they got with Darnold. It's mind blowing really. And it took them two years more to figure this out! What's really frustrating is that people will say they acknowledge this failure by the Jets, but then in the next breath say "But Zach should still have succeeded". How? When you're asked to play behind terrible OLs, with for the most part mediocre talent in the skill positions, and an OC who insists on trying to make you play against your strengths? Really? He was supposed to overcome all of that? If Zach had been given decent support and development for his first two years and still played the way he did, I would agree with you. But the reality is he wasn't. Those first two years are virtually wasted, and should be null and void as far as expectations go. Ironically, they're eerily similar to what Steve Young went through after being drafted by Tampa Bay and struggling so badly there that they sent him to SF where he sat for the better part of 4 years behind Montana. I would hope that Zach could have a quicker timetable to success than that, but it shows that for even a great QB it takes the right timing and situation to succeed. And yes, of course, sometimes QBs don't succeed, and we don't know yet if Zach will be a Steve Young or just a bust because the Jets haven't figured out how to develop young QBs so far. But I wouldn't be surprised if the Jets decide to part ways with Zach, if he lands in SF - like Young did - and continues the ironic parallel to that former BYU QB. I would much prefer that the Jets get their shit together and deliver on that draft night promise and give Zach a real chance to succeed, because the alternative is that they once again go QB shopping and they've proven to be clueless about that.
Because this isn't 1970, so the other QBs in the league don't play with the risk/reward threshold that stops Zach from throwing picks.
Its Tuesday and no new QB is signed. I can just accept the fact that it will be Zach for the near future and hope he improves against NE enough to get us the win. Complaining isn't going to change it and we're still a .500 team.
This is a fair point to bring up. For me, it's because I have expected much more than that from him for his whole career. Fair or not, a 2nd overall pick having a stat line like Zach had in the 2nd start of his 3rd year as a pro is just objectively bad, regardless of what team he is playing. To be honest, that stat line is bad for any NFL QB, regardless of where or even if they were drafted. Also, I don't think there's any contradictions with me saying the version of Zach we saw through basically the first half/3 quarters is a version of Zach that this team can win with while also pointing out that by modern-day NFL standards, it's bad. Again, going into the half he was 5-10 with 94 yards and 1 TD, with 4 carries for 36 yards on the ground. Is that good by NFL standards? A 50% completion percentage and less than 100 yards in a half is a bad performance by anyone. Even going into the 4th he was 7-14 for 116 yards, 1 TD and 4 carries for 36 yards. In 45 minutes of action he was barely able to get 100 yards passing, that's bad. Then when the CS finally decided to open it up for him in the 4th, he throws 3 picks. Again, at least 2 of the picks I can somewhat justify and live with, even if I don't love them. But is that how low the bar is for our former 2nd overall pick? Me thinking the early version of Zach on Sunday is one we can live with this year speaks more to how I view the rest of this roster. I've said it on here and to other people in my life and I stand by it, if Zach can play at the level of about the 20th best QB in the NFL this season, this team can make the playoffs. He wasn't too far off from that but I still don't think he was very close to that but then when you factor in the last 3 possessions, he definitely wasn't anywhere close to that. I've also said the CS did him no favors. How was he supposed to get into a rhythm while throwing 5 passes over basically the first 28 minutes or so? Even in spite of that, he had maybe one of his best drives as a pro that was a centimeter away from resulting in his 2nd TD to GW on the day and would've brought the score to 18-14 Dallas going into half. If you told me Zach would play like he did on that 2 minute drive for the rest of the year, I'd put money on the Jets making the playoffs and maybe even winning a game. However, as has been Zach's MO for his career so far, he never replicated that drive the rest of the game. We've seen this for 2+ years now with Zach, he'll make a handful of great throws every game and he'll maybe even put together a great drive or two every game but he's never able to consistently string drives together. I'm still hoping he can turn it around and I would love nothing more than to come back on here around 4pm Sunday and have a few of you tell me how wrong I am on Zach because he went for 300+ and 3 TDs against the Pats, but I just don't see it happening.
I understand what you're saying and I think what JD said on draft night makes sense, for the first couple of years. At this point, he's 3 years into his professional career, this is when most QBs, if they haven't already, ascend to their ceiling. I know you brought up Steve Young but that's been a couple decades ago, things are much different in today's NFL. Gone are the days where guys sit behind a starter for 4-5 years when they're drafted and then take over the reigns. Also, I don't think what Zach has had has really been that bad from a personnel standpoint. Has it been perfect? No, of course not but let's not dismiss that starting last year he had GW, CD, Berrios, Conklin, Uzomah, Breece, MC, and Bam. That's not exactly a bare cupboard, so to speak, and he was never able to elevate his game to a sufficient level. It's not like I expected Zach to be a Burrow or Mahomes and become a Top 5 QB in the league within his first 2-3 years but I definitely expected him to not be the worst starting QB in the league over that time. MLF also did him no favors, the more that comes out about that relationship the more I question it but guys like Mike White, Josh Johnson, and even Joe Flacco were able to succeed running MLF's offense so I can't use that to totally justify away his level of play over his first 2 years. JD did a much better job than the previous GMs did with Sam. Sam never had a WR of GW's caliber nor did he have a RB as good as Breece and yet from a statistical standpoint, Sam outperformed Zach through their first 2 years. Zach is going to be this team's starter for the next few weeks and at this point, there are no more excuses. We have a solid offense, even if the OL is pretty bad right now, and a defense that, more often that not, will keep these games close for him. It's time for him to go out and show everyone why he was the 2nd overall pick 3 years ago and I sincerely hope he does it.
I just don't know what JD and RS saw in those 2019 and 2020 BYU seasons with Zach. Could have had Micah Parsons and a slew of draft picks.
Kyle Shanahan could make the decision to cut bait with the #3 overall pick. JD and RS don't have the currency at this time to cut bait on the #2 overall. Every time this team drafts a "fast-rising" player in the weeks leading up to the draft, it blows up on us.
