Link to every pass made by Zach in this game for those that want to follow along. I want to preface this thread with this, I didn't think Zach played well yesterday. I thought he was fine until our final 3 possessions and then the wheels fell off for him. As most have probably noticed with my posts over the last few weeks/months, I've turned to the "dark side" so to speak and don't really have that much confidence in Zach being a starting-level QB anymore. Similarly to last week, there's always context that can explain away this or that but the bottom line is 12-27, 170 yards, 1 TD and 3 INTs is objectively awful. If he had somehow not thrown those 3 picks that stat line doesn't look quite as bad but it still doesn't look good. He wasn't good yesterday but I didn't think he was awful until the game got out of hand. Anyway, let's get into it... 1st Quarter: 8:39, 2nd & 14: 9 yard completion to Lazard. Nothing spectacular, steps up into pocket and fires on time to Lazard who appears to run a curl to the right side of the formation. Well done. (1-1, 9 yards) 7:56, 3rd & 5: Great stunt by Parsons here. Comes essentially untouched through the A gap, sack. (1-1, 9 yards) 2:04, 2nd & 1: PA bootleg to the right. Hard to tell from this angle so I'm unsure if this was just an inaccurate pass by Zach or if there was a miscommunication here by ZW and GW and GW cut the route off too early. Either way, not a good play by Zach and potentially not a good play by GW. (1-2, 9 yards) 2nd Quarter: 9:10, 1st & 10: Slip screen to Breece. ZW under pressure immediately by Parsons and throws a good ball that hits Breece in the hands, drop by Breece. Feels like Breece lost concentration and was planning his move to get upfield. Tough break. (1-3, 9 yards) 8:29, 3rd & 5: Incompletion to Cobb over the middle. Like what Zach did here, felt the pressure coming around both edges and stepped up into the pocket. Would like to see the All-22 on this one as the pass from this angle seems to be solid but Cobb's feet get tangled up with the DB's so the pass falls incomplete. Bummer. (1-4, 9 yards) 7:22, 1st & 10: PA pass, GW runs a crosser/in over the middle in single-coverage, beats his man and Zach throws a perfect ball to him. ZW hits him in stride which allows GW to get past the safety who's playing the Cover 1 zone for the TD. Similar to the Lazard play though IMO, nothing spectacular but he gave his playmaker a chance to make a play. Well done. (2-5, 77 yards, 1 TD) 1:52, 1st & 10: Quick hitter to Conklin for 8. Nothing further here, solid pass. (3-6, 85 yards, 1 TD) 1:33, 2nd & 2: Zach hits his checkdown in MC for 3. First down. He did throw the ball a little too high which ended up getting MC smacked but still a solid play. (4-7, 88 yards, 1 TD) 1:19, 1st & 10: Another quick hitter to Conklin for 6. Same as above, Zach just taking what Dallas gives him. Solid play. (5-8, 94 yards, 1 TD) 0:57, 2nd & 4: Can't tell if Dallas just totally had us covered up or Zach missed someone but either way, Zach sees nothing, pulls the ball down and takes off for a 3 yard gain. Will avoid further comment on this until see some All-22 because there's always a chance he missed someone on this play. (5-8, 94 yards 1 TD: 1 carry, 3 yards) 0:45, 1st & 10: Dallas appears to come out in Cover 0 with 6 guys on the LOS. Ends up bringing a CB off of the left side of the formation and 2 of the guys on the LOS drop into coverage. Zach senses the pressure and steps up into the pocket and then takes off. Initially gets past the LB but gets tripped up by him at the 1st down line. 12 yard gain by Zach. (5-8, 94 yards, 1 TD: 2 carries, 15 yards) 0:38, 1st & 10: Dallas almost gets home rushing 4. Both EDGEs appear to beat Brown and Becton. Zach again senses the pressure, steps up, and then takes off. 16 yard scramble by Zach. (5-8, 94 yards, 1 TD: 3 carries, 31 yards) 0:30, 1st & 10: Similar to Zach's first scramble, will need to see the All-22 to see if he misses someone that's open but Zach decides to take off fairly quickly for a 5 yard gain. (5-8, 94 yards, 1 TD: 4 carries, 36 yards) 0:12, 2nd & 5: Zach clocks the ball to stop the clock after the scramble. (5-9, 94 yards, 1 TD: 4 carries, 36 yards) 0:12, 3rd & 5: GW absolutely cooks Diggs on this corner route, some truly elite level route-running on display by GW on this play. However, we have a rare instance of AVT getting beat. He allows Lawrence to get some pressure through the B gap and Lawrence ends up getting a hand on either Zach's hand or on the ball or both. Either way, he alters the trajectory of the ball causing the pass to almost get picked but fall incomplete. (5-10, 94 yards, 1 TD: 4 carries, 36 yards) So, my quick take here at the half, 5-10 for 94 yards and a TD is not great, but at this point I thought to myself, "man, if Zach can just play like he did on that last drive, we can be competitive". Some decent excuses/justifications for Zach's 1st half statline too IMO, the drop by Breece on the slip screen, Cobb's feet getting tangled up with the DB, and of course Lawrence altering another potential TD to GW. Again, don't love that Zach is 5-10 with 130 yards of total offense and a TD in the first half but this is not the worst I've ever seen Zach look, so progress?? lol 3rd Quarter: 15:00, 1st & 10: PA pass, muddy pocket, Zach does an ok job of standing strong and not bailing. Zips a side arm pass to Breece who leaks out, drop. You can say Zach put a little too much mustard on it but it looks like it hits Breece in the hands, he needs to make this catch. (5-11, 94 yards, 1 TD: 4 carries, 36 yards) 7:24, 1st & 10: Empty set (please Hackett, scrap these sets). EDGEs get around but Brown and Becton do a good enough job of just pushing them around the hoop, Zach steps up and scrambles to his right. keeping his eyes downfield, he rips one to Lazard for a 14 yard gain. Solid play. (6-12, 108 yards, 1 TD: 4 carries, 36 yards) 5:19, 1st & 10: Another empty set...fml. Dallas brings 5, hat on hat, and the OL can't handle it. Sack. Awful play design too, for some reason Uzomah is Zach's primary read here on a quick out. Hackett really think Uzomah is beating anyone in man coverage? Again Hackett, scrap these sets. (6-12, 108 yards, 1 TD: 4 carries, 36 yards) 4:42, 2nd & 17: Love this play call though, it's essentially a bubble screen to GW with Lazard and Conklin blocking for GW. You can maybe say this ball is a little behind GW but I don't think it was. Uncharacteristic drop by GW here. Bummer. (6-13, 108 yards, 1 TD: 4 carries, 36 yards) 4:38, 3rd & 17: Dallas drops 7 deep and only rushes 4. I'm guessing there's nowhere to go with this ball (need to confirm with the All-22) so Zach wisely hits his checkdown in Conklin for 8 yards. (7-14, 116 yards, 1 TD: 4 carries, 36 yards)
4th Quarter: 12:23, 1st & 10: Great back shoulder throw by ZW to GW for a gain of 15. Would love to see more of this going forward because everyone is going to man us up until we prove we can beat it consistently. Great catch by GW too. (8-15, 131 yards, 1 TD: 4 carries, 36 yards) 11:56, 1st & 10: Not blaming Zach for this incompletion. Parsons immediately beats Brown and hits Zach as he is trying to throw the ball to Conklin, causing an incompletion. Inexcusable by Brown as he gives up inside leverage instantly. (8-16, 131 yards, 1 TD: 4 carries, 36 yards) 11:51, 2nd & 10: Dallas brings 5, Parsons makes McGovern look like a middle-school C and beats him like a drum. Zach senses the pressure coming through the A gap and rolls out to his right and throws his first pick of the day. Awful play. Not sure if he's trying to hit MC on the sideline and it's inaccurate or if he's trying to throw low to GW who's beyond the defender who made the pick. Either way, doesn't matter, he's gotta just chuck this ball OOB and live to fight another day. We are down 27-10 at this point so I'm sure he wants to make a play but that doesn't matter. This was an old-school ZW play, and obviously not in a good way. (8-17, 131 yards, 1 TD, 1 INT: 4 carries, 36 yards) 8:18, 1st & 10: Safety on the right side of the defensive formation walks up to play the underneath zone. Zach notices this and immediately locks onto GW running a streak/go/etc. in single coverage against Diggs. Not a good throw by Zach but not a terrible one and I like the decision. Zach's gotta put a little more on this ball and lead GW past Diggs because there was no one deep to worry about and down 30-10, hell yeah, let it rip man. Just gotta get it there. Could've called a PI against Diggs as it does look like his left arm hooks underneath GW's right and doesn't allow him to use both hands for the catch but that's loser talk and I don't think GW comes down with that even if his arm isn't held. (8-18, 131 yards, 1 TD, 1 INT: 4 carries, 36 yards) 8:12, 2nd & 10: Zach with a quick hitter to Hardman for 6 yards. Nothing too much here. Solid play. (9-19, 137 yards, 1 TD, 1 INT: 4 carries, 36 yards) 7:34, 3rd & 4: Parsons almost gets to Zach (man Brown was so bad in pass pro yesterday), Zach avoids the sack and scrambles out to his left. Honestly one of his best throws of the game IMO. Drifting left he throws a dime to Lazard 50 yards downfield on the left sideline, right in between 2 Cowboys DBs but Lazard can't get both of his feet down. Tough break. Wouldn't have counted anyway because they called holding on Brown but Dallas declined the penalty after it was ruled Lazard didn't get both feet in. (9-20, 137 yards, 1 TD, 1 INT: 4 carries, 36 yards) 7:25, 4th & 4: Dallas brings 5, Zach stands strong in a collapsing pocket and lets one rip to Lazard on the right sideline. Gets a DPI called against Gilmore. Solid play from Zach. (9-20, 137 yards, 1 TD, 1 INT: 4 carries, 36 yards) 7:21, 1st & 15: Zach hits Conklin on a little sit down route for a gain of 17. Solid play from Zach. (10-21, 154 yards, 1 TD, 1 INT: 4 carries, 36 yards) 6:53, 1st & 10: Jets try to set up another screen but it gets blown up. Bad play by Zach as he has to learn to just dirt these balls when this happens. Instead he takes an unnecessary sack as Parsons beats Brown like a drum again. (10-21, 154 yards, 1 TD, 1 INT: 4 carries, 36 yards) 6:10, 2nd & 15: Zach's 2nd pick. He puts a little too much air under the ball and lets it hang up there for way too long on a go ball to GW down the left sideline. Not a great throw but a solid decision. GW has a step on Diggs so there is a window, a tight window for sure but a window nonetheless. I think GW kinda sells here, can't blame him as we're down 30-10 at this point, but you can see by the replay in the video I posted that GW looks directly at the safety coming over the top so he knows this is going to be a contested catch opp but makes no effort to fight for the ball. Not saying this pick is GW's fault by any means as if Zach makes a better throw that whole argument is moot but thought that was noteworthy. (10-22, 154 yards, 1 TD, 2 INT: 4 carries, 36 yards) 3:56, 1st & 10: Zach hits Conklin on a sit route over the middle for a gain of 11 and a first down. Solid play. (11-23, 165 yards, 1 TD, 2 INT: 4 carries, 36 yards) 3:32, 1st & 10: Zach scrambles up into the pocket and then out to the left to avoid pressure and throws the ball away. Not sure if this was a misfire or intentional because it looks like Lazard is breaking open down the sideline but maybe it just looks that way because Zach went to throw it away. Zach's getting pressure in his face but he needs to stand strong there and see if Lazard can make a play. However, at this point in the game and on 1st down, no sense in taking any unnecessary hits/risks so not gonna beat him up too much for this one. (11-24, 165 yards, 1 TD, 2 INT: 4 carries, 36 yards) 3:26, 2nd & 10: Zach seemingly reverts back to rookie year Zach and scrambles backwards. He does at least scramble out to the right and throws a decent ball to Lazard on the right sideline, but seems like Lazard lost it in the Sun so it falls incomplete. (11-25, 165 yards, 1 TD, 2 INT: 4 carries, 36 yards) 3:18, 3rd & 10: Zach just dumps it off to Cook in the flat for a gain of 5. Again, from this angle, tough to tell if this was the right decision or not but good placement on the pass. (12-26, 170 yards, 1 TD, 2 INT: 4 carries, 36 yards) 3:12, 4th & 5: Seems like a good play by Zach. He lets GW clear the underneath zone defender and puts the ball on GWs hands. Maybe a tad high but that's a ball GW's gotta catch on 4th down. Dallas gets flagged for DPI here and I don't remember if it was GWs defender or not but solid play by Zach. (12-26, 170 yards, 1 TD, 2 INT: 4 carries, 36 yards) 3:07, 1st & 10: This one feels like a miscommunication by ZW and MC. MC is running an out from the backfield and Zach goes to him as his checkdown. Idk if this is an option route, meaning MC can sit down if they're running zone and he finds a hole or what, but it looks like ZW expects MC to keep running towards the sideline but MC thought he should sit down. Either way, bad pass or bad decision by Zach that results in a Diggs INT. (12-27, 170 yards, 1 TD, 3 INT: 4 carries, 36 yards) Half by half stat break down: 1st Half: 5-10, 94 yards, 1 TD: 4 carries, 36 yards 2nd Half: 7-17, 76 yards, 3 INTs Total: 12-27, 170 yards, 1 TD, 3 INT: 4 carries, 36 yards So again, Zach didn't play well, there's no way you can look at that stat line and say he did. Even with some of the justifications I've laid out in this post, you can't justify that stat line. However, going into the 4th quarter, Zach's stats were, 7-14, 116 yards, 1 TD: 4 carries, 36 yards with 3 drops (2 by Breece and 1 by GW), and maybe I've just set the bar too low for Zach but I feel like that version of Zach is one this team can win with. Now, I'm obviously not talking about winning the Super Bowl with this level of play but they can be a competent team IMO. But when your defense allows 30 points and your RBs only generate 24 rushing yards, you're never going to win with that QB play. OL was also a sieve all game, haven't seen the pressure #'s just yet but I'd say Zach was pressured on more than half of his dropbacks. Not great, Bob. Hackett essentially took the ball out of his hands for the entire first quarter. It's very hard for any QB to get into a rhythm when they only throw 5 passes over (almost) an entire half. I'm not sure how that 2 minute drive didn't instill a little more confidence for Zach in Hackett but it is what it is. It's time to let this kid sink or swim (probably sink). I know they don't want to shake his confidence but this roster is ready to compete for the playoffs. If they have to water down the offense to this extent when Zach is under center, they don't have nearly as much confidence in him as they're letting on to the media/beat. Time to rip that band-aid off. TLDR; Zach was bad but not terrible until the 4th quarter. Hackett needs to take the training wheels off and let him get into a rhythm early in the game. We're not beating anyone if the D gives up 30 points and our RBs rush for 24 yards. Feel free to comment below and lmk if/how you disagree with what I've put above. A big reason for me making this thread was to also try to consolidate the Zach Wilson discourse each week. Feels like almost every thread devolves into a ZW war now so let's try to keep all that in here! We're onto the Pats everyone, let's hope we get a better performance from everyone on Sunday!
I know that Zach stunk it up, but seriously, who was the QB that could have led us to victory yesterday? Rodgers, Minshew, Brock Purdy? Nobody is winning with a mind bogglingly horrible game plan, terrible O line, and 2.4 yards a rush.
Plus 1 Rex Ryan going crazy today on first take espn with Stephen a smith saying we had the wrong game plan ..NEED TO RUN THE BALL Hackett has Wilson now to manage ..not A Rogers!
It's not 2.4yds a rush if you have someone who can complete passes. It's got to be one of the easiest defensive jobs preparing against ZW.
Thank you for the break down, that must have taken you a while. The thing is ZW is not going to change with any amount of reps. The dude has had plenty of reps. In fact, all of the things we are discussing are the same things we saw the previous seasons. There have been some positive things I have seen this preseason and this game. It seems ZW looks up to AR so he has been somewhat effective in emulating him; mimicking his footwork, throws, etc. This has lead to him looking like a more improved QB in the pocket. Sunday he stood in the pocket and moved forward when throwing. This was on the surface a big deal and a sign of progress. He was several time able to complete passes by stepping into them. This is also progress. But his instincts are just non-existent at times and he disappears mentally in the game. You need a certain mental makeup to do the job of QB in the NFL. He simply does not have it.
Sure but going empty backfield half the time isn't helping complete passes. They defense can key on passing and there no back to pass block. It was such a stupid game plan it was cringe.
Takes to long to get rid of the ball, looks lost when 1st read is covered, can't read a nfl defense, throws it into the ground half the time. Highly innacurate, you can't teach any of this, simply he is not a Nfl Qb. Than throwing it into 3 people and almost getting our best receiver killed at the end of the game was just boneheaded and criminal. Just proves he is a imbecile.
This is a good write on our starting QB: NFL Week 2 Hot Read: The Jets Cannot Be Serious with Zach Wilson - The Ringer
Thanks for the thanks! haha I think I agree with a lot of what you've said here. There have been some positives with Zach over the last month or so going back to the PS. He seems more comfortable in the pocket, is navigating the pocket better, and it seems like his ball placement is better for the most part. So far this year, only 2 games so very small sample size, there haven't been many wildly inaccurate passes. Last year and his rookie year he was missing wide open targets by a mile and that seems to be almost gone. Obviously the first pick was one of those throws, as was potentially the 3rd one though so it isn't totally gone. I would also agree with the instincts part. As of right now, he's a see it then throw it QB. I don't see a lot of examples of him throwing guys open or throwing with anticipation. This could be due to lack of reps this offseason with the 1's but this is something that we haven't seen a ton of from Zach so far so it's more likely he just doesn't have that. I would somewhat disagree with the disappearing mentally part though, I never felt like Zach checked out yesterday or against the Bills, even after the picks. He didn't start air-mailing or dirting balls to wide open receivers, if guys got open he was still able to hit them. Even on his last 2 picks against Dallas, they're much "better" picks than what we're accustomed to when it comes to Zach. The 2nd one was a deep shot to GW that was just a little overthrown, not ideal but not the end of the world. The final one seems to have been a miscommunication with MC IMO, although it is possible it was one of those wildly inaccurate passes that we're used to. The unfortunate thing to remember when it comes to Zach's improvement this year is we have to put that improvement into perspective. Zach has been statistically one of the worst starting QBs in the league for the last 2 years, so while he might be improving, if he's still one of the worst QBs in the league, then that improvement doesn't really matter as it's of no consequence.
that was a good write up. thanks for sharing "Every week that the Jets trot Wilson out there and claim they’re still trying to win games and make the playoffs, I will grimace, wag my head, and ignore them. Call me when you’re serious."
Even though I know you're a troll, I'll bite on this one. You clearly did not watch the game. I know a lot of what you've said here has been Zach's MO for his career but almost everything you said did not happen yesterday. Finally, your take on the final pass to GW proves to me that you did not watch the game. Zach threw it to GW when he was in single-coverage against Gilmore after GW made it past the underneath zone defender. Then Gilmore took him down causing him to get the breath knocked out of him. In no way was that Zach's fault.
Since it would appear that you have more time on your hands than any of us, I'd like you to take some homework... Go back, break out your stop watch and tell me exactly how many seconds ZW had to react BEFORE the defense was on him. I know I did for a handful of plays and Dan "Freakin'" Marino didn't have a release quick enough to mitigate 99.9% of what I saw.
Woof...took me long enough to go through those passes and write that. I'm not sure I've got that level of commitment in me lol I can tell you that PFF had his TTT (Time To Throw) at 3.02 seconds for Dallas. That brought his average on the year to 3.12 seconds which is the 6th longest TTT in the league as of now. I think part of that is on him, part of that is on the OL, part of that is on the skill guys, and part of that is on Hackett/Downing. Hackett and Downing need to do a better job of scheming up quick, easy passes for him, force feed GW if you have to, the skill guys need to do a better job of creating separation, the OL needs to hold their blocks for just a tick longer, and he needs to get rid of the ball quicker as well. There's a ton of blame to go around for how the offense has looked so far this year and Zach certainly has his fair share of that.
We KNEW the o-line was going to be "marginal" at best but this is about as ugly as it can get short of them just standing up and moving aside for the DL to rush in. In many cases, the DL of Dallas was on ZW in 2 seconds or less. I see the 3.02 KJF posted but that simply doesn't tell the whole story. That time is based on when the throw was made. Not whether or not the QB was "ready" to make the throw or HAD to make a throw. Ready to make and "have to" are two very different animals. Again, which leads me to a different rant I had on the coaching staff. If you KNOW you are only going to have 3 seconds or less to throw then do NOT call "long" developing plays! Also, where was the run game to mitigate the rush? Just ridiculous. Hence why, in the same previous rant, I place the ENTIRE blame on the coaching staff. You KNOW what you have in ZW. You KNOW what you DON'T have in an o-line so why in the hell are you calling plays that require 4 or more seconds to develop? Who knows...
I fully agree with this. That's why in my response to your original question, I mentioned that Hackett and Downing have to develop better game plans. Look at what the Dolphins are doing. Tua's getting the ball out in 2.28 seconds, best in the league. Granted we don't have Tyreek or Waddle on our team but GW aint no slouch. I also don't understand why Hardman isn't getting more PT, he's one of the fastest dudes we have on the team and while he's not a premier WR, I guarantee you he can create more separation than most. I gave Hackett a little bit of leash for Week 1. He developed the gameplan for Rodgers and then Rodgers goes down 4 plays into the game, that's a tough spot. Yesterday was just an awful game plan and then on top of that it felt like they made 0 in-game adjustments. Empty sets against one of the best pass rushes in the league. Only giving Breece 4 carries and 2 targets. Not keeping anyone in to help Brown with Parsons after it was obvious he couldn't hang. Giving Zach 5 pass attempts through the first 28 minutes. There was a lot of bad with Hackett's gameplan yesterday, we've just gotta hope he learns from it and improves going forward.
I guess this is where we'll learn if the son is better than the father. Hackett Sr. was one of the worst in game coaches I've ever seen. It was VERY common to see him make no adjustments and simply do more of the same to no avail. Isn't that the definition of insanity? Doing the same thing over and over while expecting a different outcome?