I agree with the bold, but to expect him to look like a QB1 in the NFL after the way the Jets screwed him up the last two years is totally unrealistic imo. Hackett and Saleh have said that Zach has gone back square one in his development, that he's like a rookie again. They have admitted that they screwed him up by hiring MLF and by not having a quality veteran in here to mentor and help Zach develop. I am perhaps Zach's biggest fan on this site, and I'm more disappointed than anyone in his play, but I can understand why he has struggled, and I can see that he is improving and learning. It's not what any of us wanted or what some of us expected, but it is what it is. Jets fans just need to be patient and give him some time. He's too talented to just give up on. Rodgers, Hackett, Saleh, Downing, and JD all believe in him and haven't given up on him. They are now attempting to develop him in the way that he should have been developed his rookie season.
To get some perspective on Zach's performance vs. the Giants, watch this analysis of Rodgers by T.J. O'Sullivan. Even future HOF'ers don't play perfectly on every snap:
So first of all, I don’t need the personal attack. I am NOT blind and I watch ALL the games. I’ve been watching football for a long time just like you have. I’ve coached the game at lower levels as well. So I am not an ignorant fan. So you can just cut that personal shit out. I’m fine if you don’t want to discuss Zach with me or not. Not an issue for me. I will just say that you go through hoops to defend or excuse his to date sub par play. That’s all. The so-called “Haters” (and I’m not a fan of that term either) don’t have to point to a lot of subjective crap to defend their position…the supporters have to come with a ton of excuses, including all the ones we’ve heard…the OL sucks, the receivers drop too many balls, the OC sucks, and on and on. All fine and good, and all valid to some extent as well. My point like I’ve said in other posts…yes he has improved this preseason compared to the shit we saw in his two years on the field to date. No argument from me on that. His stats are better and the eye test is a little better as well. I’m actually HAPPY about that. However, I don’t yet see a very good QB. I saw a QB who struggled to create and sustain drives in preseason games mostly against backups. I expected better. I hope he gets there, as I think most here do. I’m just not as optimistic as you are that he will. I’ve not called anyone blind or a hater or a homer or whatever…I just like to keep it to discussions on the player and the play on the field. Peace!
My calling you blind was not an insult. It was a statement on the fact that your expectations and biases color how you see things and cause you not to see things that don't fit your expectations and biases. I'm sorry that you took it as a personal front or insult, as that is NOT the spirit in which it was said. The reality is that is true for you and all of us. We are all affected by that. That's something I am aware of and constantly have to struggle with myself. You should know by now that I like and respect you and your opinion. It was meant to help open your eyes, remove the limits placed by false expectations and/or biases. I would say the same to anyone that I consider a friend or someone that I respect. We agree that he's not yet a very good QB yet. In a very real sense, he is still a rookie. He's still learning, so to expect him to look like a very good QB is not realistic. That's my point. At this point in his career, all we can realistically look at and determine is if he is improving, learning and showing progress. I wouldn't want him starting now either, but I believe that he could be a solid backup QB, and if Rodgers got injured and Zach was forced to play that Hackett would be forced to loosen the reins and let Zach play, and to forget his development plan for as long as Zach had to play. As ColoradoContrails said, it's going to take more than one offseason (if ever) for Zach to look like a quality starting caliber QB in the NFL. I've admitted this a number of times, and am much more objective than you and others claim that I am. I go through hoops trying to wake other posters up to reality and what is possible. It's clear that many posters have closed minds, and have already given up on Zach and written him off. I think that is totally wrong perspective, especially because it's based on false assumptions and expectations. When discussing a player's play on the field, it is impossible to discuss without taking into account the other poster's perspectives and viewpoints and whether their mind is made up and closed or they are blinded by their unrealistic expecations.
I was thinking this morning, I wonder if Zach will actually be the backup, if they keep Boyle on the 53? It might be better for Zach to be QB3, thereby being the "opponent QB" in practice. He'd probably be getting more reps, & asked to run different types of Os, to boot. He'd be immersed in more QB 'think' as QB3, than as backup, which might be better for him, & his possible growth. .
No, he definitely would not be better off. I think Hackett and the Jets want to focus on developing the foundation for good QB play. Further, what Zach needs is focusing on continuing to learn Hackett's scheme and developing the fundamentals he needs to learn as a WCO QB. He wouldn't be doing that by having to run a lot of different schemes. He'd have to be focusing on learning those schemes and playing as if he wasn't starting over as a rookie. I understand why you think taking more reps would help, but in this situation, it would actually work against him. The reps that needs to take are focused reps on what he needs to work on, not on executing like he already had the foundation he needed. Being the #3 would be too distracting, and prevent his continuing to work on what he needs to work on and improve. Boyle is never going to be more than a #3 QB in the NFL. He has nothing else to do but to run the other schemes. He already knows Hackett's scheme, so he doesn't need to worry about continuing to learn that as Zach does, and his foundation is there, he just doesn't have much talent.
It's as if Dr. Frankenstein made a new monster.... Part Big Blocker, Part JUNC, part DWC, with a squirt of mosquito dna for good measure...
I think we are referring to different plays--perhaps you are referring to the play by the goalline? I'm talking about the slant route that was thrown behind the receiver--i dont know. But ya, we are oil and water on ZW. I hope you are right.
No, I was referring to that slant play. Zach threw the ball the only place he could. There was a LB sitting there and if he had led Gipson, the LB could have broken the pass up or maybe even intercepted it. Zach may not become the QB that I thought he would be, but it is too early to give up on him. He's a fighter. I'm going to keep an open mind and give him every opportunity to develop.
You're out here telling every non Zach believer that they have a blind spot for Zach. Have you looked in the mirror about your Zach blind spot? Zach truthers throw out every single excuse in the book about how he isn't the problem to defend him and it's everyone else. Sure, some of it can be true, but sometimes it's the player. I've said countless times (just today alone) that Zach was fine in the preseason. He can be fine while at the same time I can expect more out of him when you look at what he went up against. He averaged 5 YPA vs backup fringe players where the DC doesn't even scheme for the opponent. He isn't a rookie anymore. He is going on his 3rd year. What are we doing here? Why is it such a big deal that I wanted more from him? Did he make steps in progression? Yes, that's great, but at the same time it isn't hard to take a step up from when you are the worst QB in the league in 2022. Come on man. You said I'm all in on hating on Zach. That just isn't true at all. I'm calling it as I see it. He was fine (I think this may be the 7th time now today I've said this, maybe if I make it really big and bold you will stop with the assumptions that I'm a Zach hater.) It isn't unreasonable to hold him to being the best player on the field when he was the 2nd overall pick going up against JAGS. Some of the players he was going up against are going to be selling cars in 72 hours TLDR: Zach was fine all preseason Will probably be fine as a backup. Seasons over if he has to play anyways I was expecting more out him while going up vs jags. I've had enough zach wilson talk for the preseason.
Just to interject... the mistake you (& others) make is believing that some of us have a bias towards Zach. There's a huge middle-ground between love & hate. It has nothing to do with bias, it's about keeping an open mind, & looking at where he was at last season's end - - a beaten, confused mess - - and where he is now. He could've just folded up shop, deluded himself, & returned this season in the same place. Instead, he seems to have accepted his well-earned demotion with maturity & grace... put his head down, & worked to improve himself. The CS is treating him as a rookie, & chose to give him certain tasks to produce on-field, keeping it simple, taking a step-by-step approach to help him develop. There was & is no rush for now. With this in-mind, has he shown any progress, since last season? For me he has. No hero-ball... not much bailing... seems calmer & moving thru his progressions with more confidence. He's landed on his feet, after being beaten to a pulp by the media, fans, some of his teammates, & a clueless CS. As a Jets fan, the best possible outcome would be him growing into a solid NFL QB. Will he, who knows, but unlike many here, I'm open to that possibility. The kid has the physical talent, now we'll see if he has a head that can learn to use the talent productively. .
Yes, I have looked in the mirror. I have admitted that Zach isn't where I thought he would be, that he wasn't ready to start in the NFL, and that he needed fundamental work. The very fact that you throw out terms like "Zach truthers" shows your negative bias. There are excuses and there are valid reasons. The problem is that for many of you, "excuses" and "valid reasons" are one and the same, and they aren't by any stretch of the imagination. Labeling a valid reason why a player struggles as an "excuse" and just dismissing it is lunacy, and reveals a closed, biased mind, not an objective mind. It's a big deal because your expectations aren't realistic. You set yourself up to be disappointed and frustrated with Zach's performance because he isn't capable at the moment of performing the way you think he should. I seriously doubt that many QBs would have succeed in the same situation that Zach was in his first two years here. With the Jets' decisions and handling of Zach, they set him up to fail, not succeed. It wasn't intentional, but their ignorance, naiveté and mistakes created a no-win situation for him all the same. For all intents and purposes, Zach IS a rookie again. His first two years his development was totally botched, Saleh, Hackett, and I think Rodgers have all said that Zach was having to go back to square 1 and start all over again. I've never called you a hater. I know that you aren't a hater, but you sound like one at times with some of your expectations and comments. I've just responded when I thought that your expectations were not realistic. It is TOTALLY UNREALISTIC for you to expect him to be the best player on the field at this point in time. At the start of the offseason, he was no longer playing at the level he was when was the #2 pick in the draft. Due to the Jets bungled "development" and mishandling of him, he had regressed badly. He was playing more like a UDFA QB, than the 2nd pick in the draft. At the end of last season, Zach was lost. His confidence was in shambles. He was closer to being out of the league than being the #2 QB in the draft, so again, it's totally unrealistic for you to expect him to be the best player on the field. You can deny it all you want, but in doing so, you just set yourself up for frustration and negativity.
the offenses are pretty much the same. your talking about a 3rd string QB here. none are going to be great. at least white proved he can lead a team and win a game. boyle hasn't
except we as fans, especially you, like to overrate these players that'll likely be out of the league in a year or 2. yeboah isn't it. May not even make the team if we keep 4 TEs. we have 3 that are locks obviously. he's fighting with kuntz and a couple of WRs for a spot. smart is 28 and bounced around the league enough already and just trying to hang on. surratt was a 3rd round LBer who was cut after 1 season. then spent 1 season on our PS where nobody took him away. basically minnesotas version of a jachai polite. we have mosley and little Q plus the staff likes sherwood. maybe surratt holds on as a LBer 4 but won't see much time if any unless we get banged up at LBer. We aren't cutting anything worthwhile to keep a 3rd QB
