From what I understand Hackett changed the progression for the better for each read but Zach is struggling some and been overly cautious causing him to be a bit late with the throws. It will take some time for him to fully capture the proper approach and adjust to the tempo and read sequence. He is afraid to make mistakes and not allowing his instincts to take over. But some people will read whatever they want with it, not really understanding that like it or not, he is starting from the bottom once again. He digressed last year for many reasons, and now needs correction from the root up.
Exactly! Great post! Saleh said that Zach just needs to relax and sling it, and stop pressing, trying to not make a mistake.That's easier said than done, when one is having to think too much and having to deal with all the pressure on him. It's sad that fans can watch football for years yet have little or no understanding of how hard it is to do what QBs have to do in the NFL, and how important coaching and the situation are for young QBs. Their expecations are totally unrealistic, and they are truly ignorant about what it takes to change basic fundamentals and mental approach to the game, much less do both at the same time while learning a complex offense that takes around 3 years to master, and at the same time having to deal with a negative, inexperienced OC who didn't have a clue what he was doing and was doing little or nothing to help you develop and succeed. Knee jerk reactions have always been easier than having to actually have knowledge and look at a situation calmly and rationally.
Not me. No magic fix for him. Personally, I think he was one of the worst draft picks ever, is a lost cause and is just going to continue to suck. No amount of reps can fix that train wreck.
Geno showed that the ZW debate could go for up to 10 years. *The Darnold debate ends this year; if Shanahan can’t make him, no one can. ** Or next, cuz, you know
Whether we like it or not he’s going to be given another opportunity. It’s called making the most of a potentially shitty situation
Serious question: Are you so convinced of your ability to judge QB talent - even better than Douglas and a whole bunch of former QBs who all thought he was worth the #2 pick (and some thought even the #1 over Lawrence)? If so, why? What experience and/or credentials enable you to make that claim? And sure, maybe you're just a passionate fan who has passionate beliefs and feelings, but passion doesn't = rightness. You're certainly entitled to your opinion, but to assert it as undeniable, indisputable fact, goes beyond that. But don't feel bad, you're not alone here in that regard. And again, while I have consistently said I think Zach can still become a good QB, I've also acknowledged he may not. That's as far as my "expertise" goes.
i think even Joe Douglas would acknowledge drafting Wilson no.2 overall was a mistake. Didn't he already pretty much do that with some recent comments? Why you getting on a poster for saying the same thing
Wilson has always been late with his throws though. I am skeptical on your theory as to why he is this time. I don't think he's the overthinking type, I think he processes the game too slowly, some would call him dumb, but he's a rich kid from a Mormon family in Utah and those guys are never called dumb for some reason
Couple thoughts even though we’ve all beaten this horse to death multiple times… Yes, coaching matters Yes, Zach walked into a crappy situation with rookie HC and OC, shit OL, and marginal skill talent around him Yes, Zach has some natural talents/skills, and different folks have different ideas on how “elite” he really is or isn’t Yes, he had one good year at BYU, but it was a COVID year and his competition was not SEC/Big10 level To me, though, he struggled too badly with things that a top tier QB shouldn’t struggle with as bad as he did for as long as he did, and he showed little to no progress in year 2. Stats back that up 100%. So does the eye test. I work in the corporate world, and as much as you’d like to reduce the chances of it, bad hires happen. The trick is that once you know it’s a bad hire, what do you do about it? This is kind of where we are with Zach. He was drafted #2 overall. Whether that draft position was deserved or not, we can all argue till the cows come home, but it’s water under the bridge now. It is what it is. So what do we do about it now? Clearly, JD and Saleh have kept him on the team and made him #2. That says a few things. First, they clearly know he’s not ready…the team is coming together maybe faster than expected, maybe on target with expectations, but here’s what we know…both JD and Saleh were very clearly NOT willing to put their jobs on the line betting on him. Literally ANY available choice would have been better. We chose a future HOF QB. Cool. Next, they could have traded him or cut him, but they didn’t…they kept him and are saying they still believe in him to be able to develop. Maybe that’s honest, maybe it’s lip service for whatever reason (i.e., no trade takers, cap hit would be prohibitive, don’t want to have egg on their face for drafting a bust, etc.). This we don’t know for sure. Time will tell I guess, but for now, we either take them at their word (they believe in him) or we make our own assumptions (they don’t but have no realistic option to cut or trade him). But the fact is he’s been one of the worst rated QBs for 2 years. There are reasons (coaching, OL, skill players, etc.) or excuses, whatever your point of view, but he’s sucked. To me, he has had some nice moments (Tennessee, Pitt, etc.) but he hasn’t had even one complete game where he shined and showed what he could be. His best games have been about 175 yards, about 58% completion, etc. Shit, Geno had a perfect rating game (against Miami?) once, Darnold had some good games too…haven’t seen it yet from Zach. My confidence in him turning out to be GREAT is like zero…my confidence in him turning out to be average to slightly above average is not zero, but not 50% either. I just don’t think GREAT players look THAT bad like he has, regardless of who’s coaching him or who’s around him. Does anyone think someone like Mahomes or Burrow or Herbert or Allen would have posted bottom of the league ratings had they been in his position? I sure don’t. Anyway…this debate will go on and on until he proves one side right and the other wrong…maybe with the Jets, maybe not…I would love to see him click and get it and shine, but I think the chances are pretty low…
My confidence in him is 0 after he threw his defense under the bus and didn't take responsibility. Just another spoiled kiddo.
I can understand and respect that. I was shocked when he didn't accept responsibility for his poor play. I'm hoping that was just a matter of his confidence being shattered, being embarrassed and too ashamed to admit how poorly he had played, rather than it being a matter of having a sense of entitlement or being spoiled. Time will tell which it was and whether he can still get his act together.
Granted, he's not one of those guys who are so mentally tough and confident that they can succeed regardless of the situation and can succeed in spite of the circumstances rather than because of them. Those guys are few and far between. That doesn't mean that he still can't become a very good QB. With his arm talent, the rest of the talent on offense and our D, we could be a perennial playoff team if his fundamentals are fixed, he stops pressing/playing not to make a mistake, and just relaxes and lets his talent take over. Was Joe Montana a star day one? Steve Young? Kurt Warner? Josh Allen? Peyton Manning? Jalen Hurts? Would AR have become a sure-fire HOF player if he had been thrown into a situation like Zach? I doubt it. Cal is more like BYU than it is an SEC school and Rodgers had his issues coming out of college. That's why he fell in the draft. IMO the Jets are doing what they can now. They brought in a new OC who is a better teacher, more positive, who adapts his scheme to fit the talents of his players, and the progressions in his scheme are supposedly simpler than in MLF's. They've brought in a HOF QB to help mentor/show him how to play QB in the WCO and help him rebuild his confidence. We all know that no one can succeed doing anything if they don't have confidence in themselves and what they're doing, and if they're trying too hard/trying not to make a mistake (which always leads to more mistakes). I agree that it clearly says that they still believe in Zach and aren't ready to give up on him. They'd have to be delusional to think he's ready, especially after JD admitted that he screwed up in starting Zach day one and not having a veteran QB for him to sit and watch and learn from. He also knows that MLF hurt rather than helped Zach's development, that's one of the reasons why he is no longer the OC and they hired Hackett. I think it's honest. I think that some team would have been willing to give Zach a shot. They know the talent he has, and I'm sure that they saw the problems with MLF and how the Jets had a rookie HC, OC, and QB coach, and the problems with the Jets' OL and lack of quality around him his rookie season. The Jets would have taken a big cap hit if they had traded him, but as we have seen the cap can be manipulated. It seems to me that if the Jets didn't believe in Zach's ability, were going all in this year and didn't care about the future, they would have cut bait with Zach and brought in a better backup for Rodgers. They didn't do that, so that says that at this point they still believe in Zach as the future after Rodgers. That may change by the end of the season, but that remains to be seen. IMO there's no way he wouldn't have had those kinds of stats with the Jets' situation. It wasn't conducive to learning, to building confidence, and he was basically thrown to the wolves with no support, and on top of that told that he had to change his approach to playing the game and change his fundamentals. That's just insane. If one were designing a way in which to guarantee that a rookie QB would never develop and fail, I don't think there's one single thing that you could add that would have ensured that the QB fail. The problem is not with Zach as much as it is with the expectations of the Jets' FO and CS and that of the media and fanbase. No offense meant, but whether it be your perspective or mine, or someone else's, that says more about us and how we see things than it does Zach. Again, he isn't that type of QB who can succeed in spite of his situation. There's no shame or crime in that. Every player is different. They have different flaws/weaknesses, have had different coaching, different experiences, and different personalities. They aren't cut from a mold or cookie cutter. They're human. Again, the problem is with the expectation by some that every QB if he's gonna be any good, is a day one star. There are different paths to success.As I mentioned above, there are many very good/great QBs in the NFL who it took years for them to become as good as they did, and often their CS and situations (teams) had to change in order for them to achieve their potential. The bold is definitely true. Where we disagree is on his chances of "getting it." I now have doubts whereas two years ago I didn't, but I didn't know how incompetent the Jets' handling of Zach and how counterproductive it would be.
Douglas doesn't say anything bad about Zach publicly because GMs don't do that to their players. But he knows he messed up with the pick, which is why he traded for Rodgers.
Agree. He is processing the game too slowly, better term, a major development part of the game that he did literally zilch in college. Hence the issue of being over drafted and not ready to be a starter in year one. The dumb part and the entitlement are subjective comments with no base in facts. No more than coming from a poor , broken home with no father image. Great talent has surfaced from all walks of life.
Link? Where did Douglas even hint at this? Seriously. And I'm not "getting on another poster", I'm seriously asking why he - or you or any of the Zach doubters - are SO convinced that your opinion is right about Zach, even though professionals with years of experience think otherwise? What makes you so convinced of your own infallibility? Just wondering.
Or maybe it says that he knows he messed up by hiring a rookie defensive guy, and letting that guy hire a 1st time OC and QBC, and by not ensuring the OL was better, and the supporting weapons were better, and by not signing a decent vet QB to let Zach sit and learn for a while.
100% Agreed. But, I think the only thing with the kid - is he's a nice kid that works hard. They will keep him around and hope he develops to be a NFL QB and more importantly matures into a leader. Tough.
