It showed Wilson cannot throw with anticipation over the middle, on timing routes and was consistently late. He threw alot of bullets in college, but defenders and receivers are much faster so that's why he's struggled so much. His processing is slow, even though his arm wickedly live. I think the author of the video summarized it well, he has this fatal flaw to his game, once you take away the one-on-one coverage concept he basically falls apart. It didn't show in college (unless pointed out in this video) – because he got away with a lot of those bullet throws with his arm talent. He also constantly chucked up the ball for grabs when pressure came to him. It was very common, but he he little pressure in college, so there's not a tons of time. But when the pressure came he threw the ball up for grabs – definitely not like a #2 QB prospect should be doing.
Show me where I have not blamed Zach for his share of his troubles, or said that he needs to work to fix them. I've consistently doled out blame to him while placing much of the blame on MLF and Saleh, as well as shitty/inconsistent OL play and availability of decent weapons. All of these things have contributed to him struggling. But you so desperately want to blame Zach solely for his struggles that you can't see or admit that these things contributed in a big way. Unless you're Joe Douglas, or in his confidence, how do you KNOW what they would do? If Zach were as bad as you say, Douglas would have no hesitation in making him QB#3 and/or trading him for whatever he could get. IDK what your credentials are for evaluating QBs, but I question whether you have any experience that's greater than mine, and I don't claim any other than having watched QB play for over 50 years along with studying videos by experts of QB play. You - and all the other ZW bashers - have used conflicting "logic" and cherry picked examples to support your agenda. You claim that he had a problem with slow processing that was "widely reported" before the draft, but I've yet to see this. One video from some guy, who said he had both a quick release and was slow to process. That's hardly "widely reported". Of course he was going to struggle when he went from the college game to the speed of the pros, all young QBs do. If this was a "widely known" problem, do you really think Douglas wouldn't have known this? And if he did, why the hell would he have either A) Hired an OC who would install an offense that demands quick reads from a QB; and B) Why would he have drafted a "slow processing QB" in the first place? What is far more likely is that Zach wasn't any slower than most QBs coming out of college, and in fact, given the numerous examples of him executing plays off schedule - which requires quick thinking to be able to read the chaos and make something happen out of it - Douglas felt confident that Zach could adjust pretty quickly if MLF had the patience and ability to work with him. We've since found out that LaFleur thought Zach was a bad fit for his version of the WCO, but rather than make adjustments for that, he kept trying to make Zach something he wasn't. After 2 years of seeing LaFleur fail at this Douglas "invited" him to find a new job. If Douglas thought Zach would struggle picking up MLF's offense like he did, he either would have told LaFleur to change his offense to better suit Zach's strengths, or he would've signed a decent vet to be QB#1 and let Zach sit and learn. Neither of these things happened. Another "proof" that's used to show that the problem was Zach and not the offensive scheme is that "Mike F'n White" and Flacco could execute it. Well, really? How many games did they win? If they put up some better numbers it was due more to their experience in the pros - and yes, White had limited starting experience, but he still had several years of experience practicing with pros and watching games from the sideline and doing film study. If the Jets were so wedded to LaFleur's offense, they should never have thrown Zach out there Day 1, and again, even MLF admitted this. Despite all of this, and despite his struggles, Zach has been able to put together some good play. Of course he needs to become more consistent and put more of these together, I've never said anything differently, but he is capable of doing it. And again, I will say as I have numerous times: I may be wrong about him. I'm no expert, nor am I privy to all the info and data that Douglas & Co have on him. And maybe as you say they're just holding onto him rather than eat his salary, but if this was the only reason, and if he is actually this bad, why don't have someone else as QB#2? Yes, I may be "dying on the Zach Wilson hill", but those shooting at me are using blanks.
I watched this video again. First, almost half of the video clearly shows why Zach would be so highly rated, and even this reviewer said this in his conclusion. He said: "He has all the tools to be a top 5 QB for years to come, but his decision-making and slow reads on plays over the middle will require good coaching to correct. If you're a GM who believes he has the right coaching to do this, he's a slam dunk pick at the top of the draft". So, either Douglas did not think Zach's issues were that major, and/or he thought he had the right coaching to help him overcome them. In any case, what this video review shows is that Wilson clearly has top potential, and the what past two years show is that the Jets did NOT have the coaching necessary to help him improve his shortcomings. Second, yes it was clear that Zach had problems with some timing plays, especially over the middle, although he didn't have them on out patterns and deep throws for the most part. And we saw a continuation of this with the Jets. But this isn't something that can't be fixed or improved upon. LaFleur could have worked with him more on this, as well as limiting the number of these types of plays. Worst case, MLF could have told Saleh and Douglas to sit Zach until he could execute better. There was some speculation that MLF did in fact try to do this. If so, why didn't this happen? Maybe because Douglas and Saleh thought that LaFleur was the one who needed to make better use of a QB who was widely considered by almost every analyst to be worth the #2 pick. Given that LaFleur is gone, I'm leaning towards that explanation. Again, this is one example from one reviewer with unknown credentials who said Zach wasn't worth the #2 pick if a team doesn't have the right coaching, and yet people who are so sure that Zach is the problem and that he's a bust and will never be anything more than that seize on stuff like this and ignore all the evidence to the contrary. As always, I'll acknowledge that I might be wrong. I really hope not, and even the Zach Haters should hope not, not because it would hurt my ego, but because having Zach succeed and being able to step in behind AR would be the best outcome for the Jets, and that's always what I want. If Zach does fail, oh well, I was wrong, but it will also mean that the Jets once again failed to identify and develop yet another QB, and will call into question whether they should ever bother trying to do so.
Yea not really going to argue. Honestly, I think JD’s bias toward athletic freak talent will generate false positives at times. Unfortunately, Zach won't be the 1st QB taken high with amazing physical gifts that didn't translate early in his career.
Well if Douglas has a bias towards taking freakishly gifted athletes, he should make sure he has the right coaching to develop them. Hiring a rookie HC and OC and drafting a QB that needed experienced coaching was a bad move. Hopefully he's fixed that and hopefully it's not too late to fix Zach.
Listen man, I respect your passion, I really do. I actually feel bad that I prompted you to type up so much to defend your stance. We’re just not gonna see eye to eye on this. I never like liked Zach as a player or personality, I think the mistake was on Douglas to draft him. I don’t and never did see him as a viable NFL QB. You see something else in him, agree to disagree.
From your video: “If you’re a GM and you think you have the coaches to develop him, then Zach is a lock to be chosen atop the draft, no questions asked” RIP Greg Knapp *in another video they mention college teams were uncomfortable with how much they gave away in their system and barraged him with copyright shit
Yes, having Greg Knapp must have convinced them that they could get Zach to be the QB they wished him to be, but it's odd that once Knapp was killed they didn't really do anything differently. They didn't hire another "QB whisperer", they didn't try to change their offense, they didn't try to sign a vet QB to run the system until Zach got up to speed.
Idk how many other QB whisperers were available a month b4 tc started and Knapp’s resume was 2nd to none. Season 2? Yeah. Definitely surprised they didn’t make some changes… I guess that’s what season 3 is for.
If not a "QB Whisperer", at least a "QB Shouter". Anybody would've been better than what they did. And yes, by the offseason last year they should've had a better plan in place. I have guarded optimism that they've finally got one now that will work. We'll see.
Lol having a “QB shouter” might have been part of the problem. 2 years is a long time to spend behind one of the best QBs to play the game so I’m optimistic he’ll learn how to be an NFL caliber QB. We will see… but (hopefully) not anytime soon
I think what that video, and really the whole Zach Wilson experience shows is that no matter how much you try to scout, extrapolate, anticipate, think you can "coach the problem out of them" and so on at the end of the day the NFL draft is a bit of a crapshoot. And no matter how smart you are, or aren't, your always going to have that element to it. A lot of guys totally fail and there are actually a pretty fair amount that take to the NFL like fish to water and end up being better pro's than they even were in college. One of the best plays Zach has been most effective on with the Jets is the one where he fakes it to the RB and just one-read rips it to a slanting WR. Very little thinking required. And that exact play is in that video in the positive section. Some of the things he has really fallen to pieces on in the NFL are in that video also. So in a way whoever that guy that made the video was ended up being fairly prescient. I remember one pre draft thread where NC was enthusiastically pounding the table for Zach Wilson calling him a low or no-risk pick (I forget which) and I was cautioning that there really was a fair amount of risk involved and trading the pick might prove to be the better, less risky move. If Zach "kind of" worked out he'd be maybe 10% better than Darnold and there seemed like a big risk he wouldn't work out that well (although I must admit I never anticipated the complete train wreck its actually been thus far). If he didn't work out the Jets franchise would be set back for years. That is the very definition of risk for frigs sake. Maybe Hacket can salvage the whole thing and get the Jets back on track after we see where this little Aaron Rodgers detour takes us. I'm not sure how confident I am in that happening at the moment but I do think there is a legit chance for salvation. A year or two out of the crucible is probably a good thing for Wilson at this point and if he attacks it the right way with the right attitude there may still be some hope.
Very reasonable take… I totally agree its a crapshoot…QB is one of the hardest positions in team sports to play…it carries so much of the burden for team success…much like a pitcher in baseball, though in baseball, even though it’s a team sport, a pitcher’s success is almost 100% just on him…sure the fielding and catching matters of course, but it’s all about the pitcher’s own ability to make the pitches. In contract, a QB relies on his OL for protection, he relies on the receivers to be where they need to be and then to actually catch the ball, etc. So the failure rate is high…it’s a huge jump from college to the NFL. To be honest, I didn’t really have an issue with the pick at the time as I don’t typically watch a lot of college ball so I rely on the highlights and draft analyses to start to form an opinion. I for sure was super pissed when we won those meaningless games because I 100% wanted Lawrence as I had actually watched him play at Clemson quite a bit. I thought he would be great. I hadn’t watched Zach, and I for sure was concerned about the level of competition he faced…sure he looked good against scrub teams, but he wasn’t playing against future NFL players like Lawrence did, or like you would in the SEC or Big 10. So I was concerned. Anyway, they don’t all make it, even those who were great in college don’t always translate. Will be interesting to see this year’s picks and how they pan out…we had Young, Stroud, and Richardson go in the top 4. We don’t know who of them will turn out to be good to great, but we can pretty confidently say that they all won’t. In fact, it’s probably more likely that 2 of the 3 fail … who knows which one?
We both have the timing correct, I just worded it poorly. We basically have 11 months to decide on ZWs 5th year. The risk of not excising his 5th year, is that after ZW spends 2 seasons as AR's backup, he could actually REALLY IMPVROVE, and he'd be a free agent the same time AR walks away. Lets say we pass on the 5th year. It's now ZW's 4th season (his 2nd behind Rodgers), and Rodgers gets injured. Zack steps in, and plays so well Rodgers never returns. If that happens, however so slight, ZW will be a top FA QB, and no doubt (at all) some team offers him $40m+, maybe even $50m per. After breaking the bank for Rodgers, no way JD could afford to compete with that. ZW moves on to a new team, and Jets are right back where we started 20 years ago. I wonder what would get Joe Douglas fired faster: Zack Wilson becomes the QB we all hoped, only to lose him to some other team, OR JD picks up ZW's 5h year, only to cut him right afterwards. The only way to make this whole ZW thing any worse, is for him to finally develop on our time, our dime, only to lose him to the Patriots due to a JD mishandling Zack's contract!
Suppose things get off to an ugly start with Rodgers, 1-5 after the 1st 6 games or something, I think you have to switch to Wilson to see if you want to use that 5th year option or not
