True crime thread

Discussion in 'BS Forum' started by typeOnegative13NY, Nov 23, 2022.

  1. Br4d

    Br4d 2018 Weeb Ewbank Award

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2004
    Messages:
    36,670
    Likes Received:
    14,472
    She should not have been appointed as public defender on the case if she actually had conflict of interest issues.

    So just went and did a little research and there is no way that she should be Kohberger's attorney. They're going to have to go to one of the other defenders capable of taking a capital murder case. The other dozen in Idaho all practice in Southern Idaho. She got the case because she's the only capital defender practicing in Northern Idaho.

    She defended Kernodle's mom on drug charges several times and had an active case as of Jan 5th 2023. She knows the family. That's a conflict of interest. She will have to potentially cross-examine one of her prior clients whom she has confidential information outside the framework of the case. That's a conflict of interest. She represented another parent of one of the murder victims in 4 cases, currently inactive.

    She made the wrong choice when she conflicted out her prior clients. She should have conflicted out Kohberger instead.

    BTW, there are a lot of drug-trafficking related signs here. One of the few scenarios other than deranged psychopath that is valid is retribution for drug deal gone wrong. The father of one of the upstairs victims said "he didn't have to go upstairs." At the time we didn't know what that meant but if Xana's killing was to threaten her mom to keep her mouth shut then it makes sense.

    This case is a hot mess for the authorities right now.
     
    #361 Br4d, Jan 27, 2023
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2023
    typeOnegative13NY likes this.
  2. typeOnegative13NY

    typeOnegative13NY Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2003
    Messages:
    14,801
    Likes Received:
    4,684
    That’s what I was thinking too, and that’s a loss for him. I’ve read that she’s one hell of an attorney.
    The drug theory is interesting. Before this case I’ve never even thought of Idaho more than it’s on the bag of potatoes. But it seems that there is a lot of drug activity and even cartel problems there, from what Ive read anyway.
     
  3. Since1969

    Since1969 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2018
    Messages:
    947
    Likes Received:
    1,517
    This is an interesting development. Given defense counsel's prior representation of the victims' family members, it just gives things a very bad look.

    Let's see if the prosecutor moves to disqualify defense counsel. He has to be concerned that if he obtains a conviction, the defendant will later claim that defense counsel pulled her punches at trial out of loyalty to her formal clients. The last thing the prosecutor wants is for a conviction to be vacated on grounds of ineffective assistance of counsel.

    If the prosecutor files a motion, the whole issue will be hashed out in open court. The judge can advise the defendant of the potential conflict and its ramifications, and the defendant can decide whether to waive the conflict.

    The situation definitely gives an appearance of impropriety. The attorney owes a duty of loyalty to her former clients (the victims' family members) while owing the same duty to the guy charged with killing the victims.

    Whether this conflict is more than just appearances is an open question. It may hinge on whether there is any connection whatsoever between these murders and the cases in which she represented the victims' family members. It may also hinge on whether any of her former clients will testify at trial. If the prosecutor seeks the death penalty, for example, I can see these family members testifying at the penalty phase, even if they don't testify at the guilt phase.
     
    #363 Since1969, Jan 27, 2023
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2023
    typeOnegative13NY likes this.
  4. BrowningNagle

    BrowningNagle Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2003
    Messages:
    27,090
    Likes Received:
    28,209
    Isn't that what being a public defender is all about? They can represent you one day and then represent someone who committed a crime against you the next. It is not a conflict of interest because they are separate cases.

    (although it was kinda shitty that she dropped the girl's mother's case like that in anticipation of this one)
     
  5. Since1969

    Since1969 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2018
    Messages:
    947
    Likes Received:
    1,517
    Yes and no.

    This situation isn't uncommon in public defenders' offices, especially in small counties. That's why these offices have conflict attorneys or pool attorneys to handle cases in which the public defenders have a conflict.

    Here, the better course might have been to farm out this murder case to the conflict attorney or a pool attorney. This public defender created the troublesome issue by ditching her former clients so that she could represent this defendant. If the murder case had been farmed out, there wouldn't be any conflict or potential conflict.

    Don't forget that the conflict-of-interest rules apply equally to private attorneys and public defenders.
     
    #365 Since1969, Jan 27, 2023
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2023
    BrowningNagle likes this.
  6. Br4d

    Br4d 2018 Weeb Ewbank Award

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2004
    Messages:
    36,670
    Likes Received:
    14,472
    The other thing is that Taylor apparently represented one of the parents in 4 drug cases. That's an eye-opener as it is hard to see where somebody winds up charged with simple possession 4 times.

    Not that this is an Ozarks or Breaking Bad type situation but if drugs were sold out of the house and the parents of anybody living there was charged at any point with distribution the whole case starts to look different. Cartels are not noted for their subtlety and 4 victims stabbed to death would easily be in the range of potential punitive actions by a cartel. Also it brings a huge question mark to the long delay in reporting the deaths and the fact that two people in the house were not killed.
     
  7. BrowningNagle

    BrowningNagle Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2003
    Messages:
    27,090
    Likes Received:
    28,209
    The girl’s mom is an addict. That doesn’t make her or her daughter connected to Pablo Escobar
     
  8. Br4d

    Br4d 2018 Weeb Ewbank Award

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2004
    Messages:
    36,670
    Likes Received:
    14,472
    But it could well leave reasonable doubt for Kohberger particularly if the case turns out to be largely circumstantial and the solid evidence is impeachable somehow.

    The way the case has presented itself so far looks a lot like the preamble to a witch burning. Not to say Kohberger couldn't be guilty but we've got a lot of angry villagers with pitchforks sounding off on social media and extending to the quasi-real crime net.
     
  9. BrowningNagle

    BrowningNagle Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2003
    Messages:
    27,090
    Likes Received:
    28,209
    Idk about that.

    Pointing out that the girl he brutally stabbed to death also had a crackhead for a mom might turn the jury against him even more
     
  10. Since1969

    Since1969 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2018
    Messages:
    947
    Likes Received:
    1,517
    This discussion shows how insidious these conflict issues can be.

    A defense attorney might try to absolve Kohberger by claiming these murders were the result of a drug deal gone sour and that the murderer was a local dealer (who had been stiffed by one of the victims) or a local user (who had been ripped off by one of the victims). Forget the cartels. Pissed-off local dealers or users can be very nasty, too.

    If defense counsel doesn't pursue this theory at trial, the defendant might argue later that she punted out of loyalty to her former clients. Maybe she didn't want to shed further light on their drug activities or maybe she feared that pointing the finger at local dealers might lead to retaliation against her former clients.

    This all may be very far afield, but it shows why this conflict issue raises troubling questions.
     
    typeOnegative13NY and Br4d like this.
  11. Br4d

    Br4d 2018 Weeb Ewbank Award

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2004
    Messages:
    36,670
    Likes Received:
    14,472
    The other thing is that one of the mechanisms that often resolve messy cases like this one is likely off the table. The prosecutors cannot offer a plea bargain likely to induce the defendant to plead guilty because anything that would be a major inducement would provoke wide-spread outrage in the community at large.
     
  12. typeOnegative13NY

    typeOnegative13NY Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2003
    Messages:
    14,801
    Likes Received:
    4,684
    An already very strange case, gets even stranger.
     
  13. Br4d

    Br4d 2018 Weeb Ewbank Award

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2004
    Messages:
    36,670
    Likes Received:
    14,472
    The only thing I am sure of at this point is if they make a movie it is going to be a Coen Brothers production.
     
    Acad23 likes this.
  14. typeOnegative13NY

    typeOnegative13NY Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2003
    Messages:
    14,801
    Likes Received:
    4,684
    The pca was 18 pages. Just saw that discovery is 995 pages, 1800+photos .
     
  15. typeOnegative13NY

    typeOnegative13NY Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2003
    Messages:
    14,801
    Likes Received:
    4,684
    Not too much new going on Idaho.

    family attorney has filed against the gag order.
    Some family members of one of the victims are publicly questioning the surviving roommates actions, or lack of.

    how about the alex murdaugh trial? Holy shit.
     
  16. Jonathan_Vilma

    Jonathan_Vilma Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2004
    Messages:
    33,240
    Likes Received:
    32,081
    If you like true crime stuff you should watch the American Greed episodes on Murdaugh. They did a good job establishing a motive and discussing all of his financial crimes. It’s 2 or 3 parts and should be available on demand for CNBC through most cable providers.
     
  17. BrowningNagle

    BrowningNagle Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2003
    Messages:
    27,090
    Likes Received:
    28,209
    What a POS that guy is. I spent some time in that little town of Hampton, SC. I have a long funny story that I'll spare you but I really liked it there, good small town folks there (Murdaugh's aside)
     
    typeOnegative13NY likes this.
  18. typeOnegative13NY

    typeOnegative13NY Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2003
    Messages:
    14,801
    Likes Received:
    4,684
    I’ll have to check that out, was looking for something new to watch. It’s a pretty local case, my kids went to school with people who knew the girl who died on the boat.
     
  19. typeOnegative13NY

    typeOnegative13NY Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2003
    Messages:
    14,801
    Likes Received:
    4,684
    Yeah, unfortunately it seems guys like that are the remnants of a fading good ol boy system.
     
  20. typeOnegative13NY

    typeOnegative13NY Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2003
    Messages:
    14,801
    Likes Received:
    4,684
    This guys voice is really hard to listen to. I dont know the validity obviously, but what he’s saying here makes a hell of a lot more sense than what’s in the pca.
    He claims to be the boyfriend of someone very close to her.:: and his girlfriend has been around Dylan “Almost everyday since”. Which would put him somewhere near or in her hometown, because she never went back to school. Could possibly be a boyfriend of an older sibling/cousin etc? Could be a 2 pack a day bs artist too, but still, makes more sense than the “frozen shock” for 8 hours


     

Share This Page